Short run earnings for MTT's

[Robb]

My rakeback provider has "bonus" freerolls for cash payouts, and my "frequent player" bonuses can turn into cash if I use them for MTT buyins. But I'm am 6max cash player. I suck at MTT's.

How "sound" is the idea that I'll treat these MTT's as "taking a shot"? They don't cost me money to play, so why not open up in the early rounds and see if I can build a decent stack?

Benefits
1. If I crash out, I go out early and get right back to cash games where I consistently win.
2. If I'm still around a half hour from the money, I have a decent stack to play. And I'm comfortable with the more open style of bubble play and "gunning for the final table" rounds with a moderate knowledge of M and when shove the short stack.
3. Taking the "bad" end of 60-40 all-ins (with hands like 89s, etc), I can still catch a card and stack someone. Maybe a couple someones. Obviously try to avoid completely dominated all-ins.
4. Don't have to spend tons of time learning MTT strategy.

I'm not saying I would play a maniac style, just more like 25/18 instead of 8/6 during the first five levels or so.

The other option is to set aside a portion of my bankroll and spend time in STT's and MTT's to hone my skills, something I don't want to spend bankroll or time on. Even with the freerolls and bonus MTT buyins, I probably wouldn't break even without spending virtually all of my poker time playing and studying MTT's. In the short run (I play an MTT maybe twice a month), is this a decent approach? Just try to hit the lottery?

I know it's a questionable strategy - please feel free to critique. What approach would you experienced players take to these "free money - cash payout" tourneys if you wanted the most return for the least amount of time and energy? BTW, half are true freerolls, but half are cash MTT's that I'm buying into with bonus points. And the play is more "serious" than in both types than in the feeding frenzy freeroll donkaments.

[d0zer]

The raketherake freerolls are nothing but +EV. Basically like a free ticket into a $10 large pool MTT. They're less +EV if you play em' stupid, so play them properly (NOT like you suggested) and work on your MTT game a bit in the process.

I'd suggest playing it while you're playing your regular 6-max cash games on the side & just playing a nit game early like you gotta. MTTs are all about extreme patience, and the first hour or two is pretty f'n boring...especially when yer carddead.

[drmcboy]

I guess it depends on the structure but I would think you'd just be passing up chips playing 8/6.

[d0zer]

I guess it depends on the structure but I would think you'd just be passing up chips playing 8/6.

well yeah. You can get away limping a fair bit when the blinds are small on a lot of tables you'll find in the lower buy-in MTTs. And surely we can find more than 6% of hands to raise in LP

[Robb]

All the advice is to "play optimally." The point was that I don't know optimal or even "decent" play for MTT's. I'm one of the reasons RaketheRake's freerolls are easy money for dozer

Thinking outside the box for a minute, and knowing that my agro 6max background is much closer to optimal MTT play near the bubble and in the money, is trying to gambool early a decent idea?

Mathematically, suppose I go all-in twice during the few five levels as a 60-40 dog. One out of 6 times, I stack two players and can nit my way to the money. The other five times, I head for the cash tables without wasting 2 hours.

What's the maximum earning, given that I don't intend to play or study MTT's?

[d0zer]

All the advice is to "play optimally." The point was that I don't know optimal or even "decent" play for MTT's. I'm one of the reasons RaketheRake's freerolls are easy money for dozer

Thinking outside the box for a minute, and knowing that my agro 6max background is much closer to optimal MTT play near the bubble and in the money, is trying to gambool early a decent idea?

Mathematically, suppose I go all-in twice during the few five levels as a 60-40 dog. One out of 6 times, I stack two players and can nit my way to the money. The other five times, I head for the cash tables without wasting 2 hours.

What's the maximum earning, given that I don't intend to play or study MTT's?

Heh. Ok I hear yah. I'd still suggest at least reading the MTT digest links. Basically tight is right at the beginning. Playing aggro early hoping to double up is classic MTT n00b thinking, so when I say "play properly", don't run your 6-max aggro style.

Once you hit the point where the blinds are like 1/15th or so of your initial stack, it becomes worthwhile to steal em' (when they can be), so that's when to use yer 6-max aggro style.

Yer 'maximum earning' would be to take a few minutes to read the MTT digest, & play relatively tight. Don't worry about the fact you're a tourney donk, they're called donkaments for a reason. You very well could do quite well. You'll probably be better than the donks who ended up at my final table last night

Or just donk around and do whatever you want. It's free!

[drmcboy]

tight is right early is also classic MTT newb thinking.

You are much more experienced playing with deep stacks than they are, you should play as many pots in position as you can early, feel free to pretend it IS a cash game.

[Robb]

Thanks for the help, guys. I am learning why I hate MTT's. LoL. Enter 50, lose 49, and you may have played "optimally" the whole way. And be winning. Jeez. What a way to earn a buck.

[d0zer]

tight is right early is also classic MTT newb thinking.

You are much more experienced playing with deep stacks than they are, you should play as many pots in position as you can early, feel free to pretend it IS a cash game.

I got yelled at for using FR cash range early in an MTT. UTG is 66+, KQ+, AJ+. Tight is a relative term.

I just found that I was spewing too much early tourney playing my (relatively loose) cash game style. I didn't mean you have to nit it up. Take chips wherever you see good opportunities, sure, but I can't help but imagine (and have experienced) that a reckless laggy style early tourney is a recipe for early busto, or bad crippling.

[d0zer]

Thanks for the help, guys. I am learning why I hate MTT's. LoL. Enter 50, lose 49, and you may have played "optimally" the whole way. And be winning. Jeez. What a way to earn a buck.

You get one big rush of excitement really, really infrequently in between the crushing depression of not hitting the money 20 times in a row

Yeah that's why I mostly play cash.

In fact, I'm not sure why I think I have any business responding to a thread about MTTs. Definitely not my specialty, even though I started with em'.

*shuts up*

[Sprayed]

I think that the first hour when the stacks are deeper is when an MTT is similar to cash. Punish the weak when in position, etc.

[Robb]

You get one big rush of excitement really, really infrequently in between the crushing depression of not hitting the money 20 times in a row

I think I could be a winning MTT player and still be ready to slit my wrists about 90% of the time.