question on small stack 3bet shove

[asdpikas]

This just happened:
open utg 4xbb with KQs
folded to SB who shoves his small stack, about 20bb
no reads on villain
i fold

and got me to think...
how big/small does his stack have to be to call/fold?

[BigPapi]

what level? 25/100/400?

any reads?

usually their shoving range is wider against a btn raise (like AJo, smaller pairs in it). here you need to call 16bb for 25. so you can call pretty wide I think.

[asdpikas]

what level? 25/100/400?

any reads?

usually their shoving range is wider against a btn raise (like AJo, smaller pairs in it). here you need to call 16bb for 25. so you can call pretty wide I think.

25NL at party, no reads on villain, 2nd orbit since i sat down

[BigPapi]

I call here personally but I like gambling with the shorties.

I think shorties at 25NL dont understand position anyway, they just look at their hand and think I push/fold. I think their range here is something like 88+/AJs+/AJo+ and perhaps even wider like 66+/Axs/ATo+.

I like calling for several reasons:

- you have decent pot odds
- your hand has decent equity against most of his range
- you show you like to gamble sometimes (though more important at higher levels i think)

that combined with the fact that if he doubles he's still short and you can get his stack in 1 hand later if you lose.

[asdpikas]

I call here personally but I like gambling with the shorties.

I think shorties at 25NL dont understand position anyway, they just look at their hand and think I push/fold. I think their range here is something like 88+/AJs+/AJo+ and perhaps even wider like 66+/Axs/ATo+.

I like calling for several reasons:

- you have decent pot odds
- your hand has decent equity against most of his range
- you show you like to gamble sometimes (though more important at higher levels i think)

that combined with the fact that if he doubles he's still short and you can get his stack in 1 hand later if you lose.

Thanks for the advise, seems good

How big should his stack be in your opinion for it to be a total clear fold?

[BigPapi]

depending on opponent/history off course, but in this case I think the more he has, the less tempted I get to call obviously. Also there will be a point where he'll stop shoving and start 3betting you. So i'ts hard to say where that exactely is. I wouldnt call an allin for 50bb with KQs unless I have reads though. At 100NL i see them 3betting with 30bb+ stacks, so I dont see the bigger preflop shove as much

[Silly String]

that combined with the fact that if he doubles he's still short and you can get his stack in 1 hand later if you lose.

Not when he is a ratholing, hit & running, no confidence in his game having, full buy losing, probably lives in a trailer, degenerate, juice chasing, FPP whoring, rakeback thieving, seat wasting, wait list clogging, annoyance providing, fly on the dung of life being, parasitic, no talent hack, short stacking bastard.
Other than that, your plan is sound as a pound.

[asdpikas]

that combined with the fact that if he doubles he's still short and you can get his stack in 1 hand later if you lose.

Not when he is a ratholing, hit & running, no confidence in his game having, full buy losing, probably lives in a trailer, degenerate, juice chasing, FPP whoring, rakeback thieving, seat wasting, wait list clogging, annoyance providing, fly on the dung of life being, parasitic, no talent hack, short stacking bastard.
Other than that, your plan is sound as a pound.

LOL

i hate them too! especially when they don't have the cojones to stay if they double up!
Then again, at party, most of them just donate to the table 3+ times before they manage to double up once and leave... probably thinking they won some kind of medal and not realizing they end up losing twice what they win.