This one bugged me....

[Deuce Blue]

I searched forever in my hand histories but couldn't find this one so I'll do my best anyway.

$5.50 10 man S&G, Blinds at 400/200

Hero-3300 chips
Villian 1- 880 chips
Villian 2- 4300 chips
villian 3- 6600 chips

Villian 2 is pretty aggro, villian 3 is solid but not overly aggro, myself and villian 1 have been in a back and forth battle trying to hang in there. I have made some nice plays in the last couple hands to finally get some breathing room.

I am UTG and dealt Ah,Ad

I raise to 800, villian 1 & 2 fold. Villian 3 calls.

Flop comes 2h,5h,9h

I now have top over pair and nut flush draw. I can't believe villian 3 caught a ton of this flop. 1700 in the pot and I have 2500 left in my stack. I figured I really had no option but shove AI. Villian 3 pauses a sec and calls and flips up 3h,7h. No other hearts show up and I crash out in 4th and OTM with the short stack laughing his ass off I suppose.

Now, this was at the end of the night that I was on a bad streak and I really bitched at myself for bubbling out there. But the more I thought about it the more the hand puzzled me. Another situation where I wanted to get some value out of the monster I was dealt but would have been happy with blinds.

Now if 2 kings or something come out on the flop I could have layed them down against the big stack as I wasn't married to them as I REALLY needed to get ITM to salvage a bit of the night. But with no paint on the flop and Aces and the nut flush draw I felt like I was dominating.

Anyway, besides just shoving pre ( which maybe a should have just done ) is there anyway that I wasn't losing all my chips here after the flop?? Honestly it was late and the thought of him sitting with the made flush didn't cross my mind, but what were the odds anyway...

Cooler or just bad on my part for not just shoving pre as obviuosly villian wouldn't have been in the hand...

[drmcboy]

pre flop is fine as long as you haven't been shoving too much since it looks pretty odd if you up and toss out a min raise. Also I don't like the idea you are laying them down if you get a 'bad' flop, if that's true then shove pre.

I would check the flop to encourage him to bluff or protect a lower pair.

[yourfather]

I'd probably make it 1000-1200 preflop but it doesn't make a big difference. And you should getting AI on flop or turn on any and every flop with AA in this spot. I prefer leading out here on the flop, probably open shoving and hoping he snap calls with any pair or any paint heart.

[taipan168]

I would never minraise in this spot, I want to build the pot with AA so I make it 1200 preflop. As drmcboy said, if you've been shoving a whole lot then just shove it preflop for deception.

I would check the flop to encourage him to bluff or protect a lower pair.

HH is not entirely clear but I think we are not first to act on this flop, so I think after opp checks, getting the rest in is fine. A lot of opps will call with any piece of this board since they will often put you on a naked heart draw rather than something that has them smoked.

[Deuce Blue]

Also I don't like the idea you are laying them down if you get a 'bad' flop, if that's true then shove pre.

I guess the only thing that would have given me pause was a monotone board in black or paired paint cards, but most likely I would have shoved anyway. As I said I was really pissed off when this happened as I felt I flushed at least $10 bucks down the toliet with the shortstack at 2 BB. But the more I thought about it unless I just shoved pre I think I was losing it all anyway. I hadn't been shoving much and the min raise was to try and get some action off a premium hand. Well I got it I guess...

Just guess I wondered if this was a bad spot to get some action or if shoving pre would have been everyones move. After the flop I was screwed and I'mm sure no one could have gotten away from that hand. Just the worst flop that could have happened I guess.

[Deuce Blue]

I would never minraise in this spot, I want to build the pot with AA so I make it 1200 preflop. As drmcboy said, if you've been shoving a whole lot then just shove it preflop for deception.

I would check the flop to encourage him to bluff or protect a lower pair.

HH is not entirely clear but I think we are not first to act on this flop, so I think after opp checks, getting the rest in is fine. A lot of opps will call with any piece of this board since they will often put you on a naked heart draw rather than something that has them smoked.

Yes, after the flop villian checked, and I shoved. And I hadn't been shoving much so the idea was to try and build the pot with the 800 bet. I guess actually I was trying to give the impression of a not so strong hand so shorty would try his luck and was hoping someone else might come along as well ( like I have a hand, but don't want to risk an AI with big stacks as a fold wasn't out of the question if I was pressured to go AI since shorty was still well below me. Make it look like a weak steal attempt ) At least that was my thinking at 3 in the AM with a full night of bad luck/play under my belt. LOL

[Monty3038]

Deuce, I think when you were helping me with my SNG game early on, this would have been a simple shove pre-flop fist pump type comment... you mentioned being happy with even just the blinds, so you'll at least get those in this situation... if someone calls, you're way ahead...

[drmcboy]

if they don't have a piece of the board they pretty much always have zero outs - worst case he has 3 with a gut shot. But if the has a black QT you have 6 outs to double up plus give him a chance to try and bluff you out after you 'give up' on this scary board.

[Deuce Blue]

if they don't have a piece of the board they pretty much always have zero outs - worst case he has 3 with a gut shot. But if the has a black QT you have 6 outs to double up plus give him a chance to try and bluff you out after you 'give up' on this scary board.

True. As I said I'm sure I'm shoving here no matter what. But did I make a mistake not shoving pre or at least a 1000-1200 bet?? Or is the min bet ok to induce some action?? I know it cost me here but in the long run with the given situation would you ever min bet to try and make the aggo villian that folded or shorty to push. I know the min raise could look fishy but I hadn't been shoving much and this could be interpreted as a weak steal attempt ( at this level anyway ).

[Deuce Blue]

Deuce, I think when you were helping me with my SNG game early on, this would have been a simple shove pre-flop fist pump type comment... you mentioned being happy with even just the blinds, so you'll at least get those in this situation... if someone calls, you're way ahead...

This is true, but I was really trying to get the most out of the A-A. Didn't want to just collect blinds if I could get more. I don't know, tried to get tricky and got burned I guess. Like I said, it had been a LONG,BAD night. This was a wonderful capper to it. LOL

[Ryski]

I feel there are very very few times when it is okay to min raise and this isn't one of them. He has odds to call with any two cards and flop a monster. The hands you WANT action from will call the raise to 1200 but I wouldn't let trash in with the donk min raise. Other than that I'm happy with the blinds if they don't want to play in the 1k-1.2k raise range but F letting them in for cheap.