4bets gone wrong..

[bspahn]

so i'm incorporating some 4bets where I'm not willing to get it in.
here's two spots.
first villain is playing 34/25/3.8 with 3bet of 14.9 (which is huge)

so I assumed he would definitely respect a 4bet since I'm UTG. Now my only other concern is that often tagg's like me will just call 3bets here in position with big hands, so does that make it a little more likely that I'm 4betting with air here, or is it still a decent spot to do it? If I flat his 3bet, then how do I rep a huge hand on the flop?
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO Hero ($224.20)
BTN greenlime22 ($403.35)
SB YouplaBoum777 ($209.40)
BB aimezhu ($426.35)

Pre-flop: ($3, 4 players) Hero is CO
Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, aimezhu raises to $22, Hero raises to $56, aimezhu raises to $426.35

Final Pot: $483.35

on the 2nd hand villain is 24/14/2.0 with 3bet of 4.0

now he's not 3betting all that much, but it's a similar amount to what I'd be 3betting with, and my 3bet range in his spot is quite wide knowing that a tagg raises a very wide button range. If i call the 3bet, I figure I have to go with either an A or Q flop, what's your thought?

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO coachk21 ($313.40)
BTN Hero ($200.00)
SB KayBash ($293.75)
BB x6tence ($311.05)

Pre-flop: ($3, 4 players) Hero is BTN
1 fold, Hero raises to $6, KayBash raises to $24, 1 fold, Hero raises to $55, KayBash raises to $293.75

Final Pot: $350.75

[meeloche]

1) Seems ok I guess, I would say he just has it this time. If you want to be able to 4 bet bluff effectively you should be 4 betting all your nut range as well otherwise whats the point?

2) Big spew. How tight do you think his 5 bet shoving range must be if his 3 betting range is 4%? Unless he's shown down AJ or Ax in an all in pre this is a pretty easy fold.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

its not bad to get it in with 66 against a guy who's 3-betting that wide.

AQ is like the easiest flat call ever.

[nutsinho]

agree with max but i would just fold 66 preflop. not a good hand to 4b bluff with so just 4bet if it is for stackoff value.

[griffey24]

agree with max but i would just fold 66 preflop. not a good hand to 4b bluff with so just 4bet if it is for stackoff value.

Yah I agree with this. BOTH of these hands have waaay too much value, that if you're actually 4-betting it should be with the intention of 4-bet/calling and not 4-bet/folding.

4-bet/fold hands that actually don't have that much value, like T8o or 79o or stuff like that.

I'd rather just call both of these hands OOP than 4-bet/fold. Leaning more towards folding 66, and calling OOP with AQ.

[meeloche]

AQ is like the easiest flat call ever.

This is 200nl and the guy is 3 betting 4 percent of his hands. Are we not smoked by this range?