Raising V Shoving from BB

[ministaker]

Still new to MTTs:
Hoping to get some thoughts/advice on this situation.

First of all, I'm not unhappy with how I played the hand. I got it in good and well, hey that's poker.
My question is; Would raising Preflop and then check folding any Ace on the flop be a viable play here or is it just too weak at this point?

Some ingame thoughts:
We've just made the money.. I have a tight image having just been doubled up with AA v KQ (against the same opponent who hasn't met an all in he didn't like) and QQ V TT a few hands ago.
i don't read any player limping in this spot as being strong..

Any thoughts on Raising here and check folding an Ace on the flop (playing for survival) Vs shoving.
I'm happy to shove here but interested in other thoughts on how to play this hand..


Full Tilt Poker Game #8061764680: $2 + $0.25 Tournament (61191647), Table 60 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:07:16 ET - 2008/09/13
Seat 1: postman5028 (9,532)
Seat 2: Terminal111 (24,054)
Seat 3: Sammy Sarofeen (65,220)
Seat 5: --Southlake6-- (31,161)
Seat 6: De Squire (21,747)
Seat 7: akanekendo (21,460)
Seat 8: AngeloKim (67,888)
Seat 9: abspielerNO1 (95,125)
postman5028 antes 150
Terminal111 antes 150
Sammy Sarofeen antes 150
--Southlake6-- antes 150
De Squire antes 150
akanekendo antes 150
AngeloKim antes 150
abspielerNO1 antes 150
postman5028 posts the small blind of 600
Terminal111 posts the big blind of 1,200
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Terminal111 [Kd Kc]
Sammy Sarofeen folds
--Southlake6-- folds
De Squire folds
akanekendo folds
AngeloKim calls 1,200
abspielerNO1 calls 1,200
postman5028 calls 600
Terminal111 raises to 23,904, and is all in
AngeloKim calls 22,704
abspielerNO1 folds
postman5028 folds
Terminal111 shows [Kd Kc]
AngeloKim shows [Jh As]
*** FLOP *** [Ac 3s 9h]
*** TURN *** [Ac 3s 9h] [Td]
*** RIVER *** [Ac 3s 9h Td] [Jd]
Terminal111 shows a pair of Kings
AngeloKim shows two pair, Aces and Jacks
AngeloKim wins the pot (51,408) with two pair, Aces and Jacks

[revolvingiris]

Im not pushing here. A standard 3-4x would have been plenty while still giving you the option of folding if you think villain flopped his A. But as it was played, He called with AJ. What more could you want?

[chardrian]

you want AJ to call here - this is pretty standard.

[drmcboy]

given read this is an easy shove, even without the loose caller read I would still shove. I think raising like 5x here into 3 people looks a lot scarier than shoving. If you were HU I could see the raise more.

[Sprayed]

If you raise preflop to like 5x you're pot committed which means that it would probably be a mistake on most flops to fold. Your stack is perfect for a shove in this spot. Also, the shove looks weaker than KK which means hands like AJo might call. The way to look at this hand is not from the negative standpoint but from the positive standpoint of "what if" you would have won this hand. These are the spots that can take you deep into a tourney.

[zep25]

I'm more inclined to raise 4x then shove the flop if the ace doesnt hit the flop but shoving preflop was fine as well.

[revolvingiris]

I just dont see how raising 20BB is best here. Villain probably isnt going to call with much worse. Meaning that the remaning 3 OP have to wake up with a top 8% to call? I feel like a push here is loosing value. As 76s might make a 3x call where as they will not call a shove. Thoughts?

[drmcboy]

Villain probably isnt going to call with much worse.

having just been doubled up with AA v KQ (against the same opponent who hasn't met an all in he didn't like)

As 76s might make a 3x call where as they will not call a shove.

76s also gets a chance to outplay you - for example on any flop where he hits a draw that also has an ace. most limping hands will either miss the flop and not pay you off or clobber the flop and you. You can also get called by lower PPs pre that will almost never stack off post flop without a set. People call shorty shoves all the times with silly hands in higher BIs tourneys, in a $2 MTT I assume it's rampant.

By raising you put yourself in the spot of:

folding if you think villain flopped his A.

You're either going to fold the best hand sometimes getting ~2/1 or get it in with a two outer. Both of those scenarios are a lot worse than only picking up over 20% of your stack.

[revolvingiris]

The more I look at this the more I like the push. Hero would have to raise at least 25% of his stack. Being there is already 20% of heros stack in there if he takes it out right. Might as well give them the pile.

[mcatdog]

Well if they're calling a push then you should push. This "get away from the hand if an A flops" is obviously dumb I'm not folding this hand no matter what the flop is. It may be that they'll make bad calls with hands like JT if you raise to 5 BB, and double you up when they flop a pair, but they'd fold those hands to an all-in. Then the disadvantage of getting it in bad on an A high flop is outweighed by the advantage of getting action from a lot more hands.