2/4 KK on paired flop

[aka_red]

villain is 17/9/9 over 150 or so.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

UTG ($729.80)
UTG+1 ($236)
MP1 ($488.80)
Hero (MP2) ($400)
CO ($127.60)
Button ($370.60)
SB ($725.40)
BB ($96.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, K
3 folds, Hero raises to $16, 2 folds, SB calls $14, 1 fold

Flop: ($36) 4, 8, 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $36, SB raises to $92, Hero calls $56

Turn: ($220) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $617.40 (All-In), Hero ? (292$)

[daven]

any more info on villain? Also, 17-9? or? what have you been playing like - your standard?
the flop c-r followed by the turn lead is a pretty strong line, he has to give you credit for some sort of overpair.
It's close. I'm stumped. I stoved some ranges, but I don't think I formed good ranges.
44, 99+, A8s, 89s, 78s puts you 60-40 ahead.
44, QQ+, A8s, 89s, 78s puts you 70-30 behind.

Even with the second range there, it's close to a call...
I guess the question is whether or not he always has an 8 or better. at 100nl this is a fold without a good read that villain is stupid.

idk I do the overshove when I think the villain is strong enough to call a pot-sized bet and might call my shove with that same range anyway

[frankiebj]

At 100nl this is a clear fold unless you know he has a thing for bluffing. He shows incredible strenght.

Problem is the check raise. would you play flopped trips this way?? Thats the problem in this hand.

. Looks like he really wants you to fold.

If i flopped trips in this hand i dont want you to go away

Smells fishy..

villain is 17/19/9

WAT

[elipsesjeff]

What hands in his range preflop have an 8 in them? All the ones that I am thinking about he'd probably reraise with instead of call. So this leans me towards 44, 88, 77 or air/flush draw and its just so hard to flop the boat like this and you just don't see it played so fast normally.

Villain's check/raise on the flop is so wide that he is just betting you missed this flop more than trying to represent it yourself. By just calling your range is a pocket pair, and he probably thinks you have a smaller pair here like 77-JJ than QQ+ because he might think you'd have shipped the QQ+ on the flop.

His shove on turn could be several things but I think its likely he picked up a flush draw and is now trying to get you to fold a hand like JJ. KK here is the top end of your range and villain could easily have QQ or turned flush draw over just the boat/trips and I think you have to stack off.

[kennyr22]

4bet flop, re-evaluate and ship/fold

[Deanglow]

4bet flop, re-evaluate and ship/fold

If you're going to give terrible advice at least explain it

[bigspenda73]

another spot where they never have it in 6max but always have it in FR

[bikes]

Call. It's such a great board to bluff raise and his AF suggests he's very aggressive post flop.

I can see 3 betting this flop to like $160 for yeti theorem meta if you think he's competent.

[ATOTHEC101]

meh, against a guy this agro I just call flop and get it in on the turn.

[Fnord]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI

[Renton]

why did you bet THE POT

[Fnord]

another spot where they usually don't have it in 6max but almost always have it in FR

FYP

That said, flop bet sizing is a little suspect and given the way that game plays I stack off here every time.

[Miffed22001]

any history?

otherwise id be getting it in here and feel good about it.

[wufwugy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI

perfection

super easy imo. villain is unknown likely donkish, and they all overplay decent hands and think that bluffing paired boards is good. if turn is a fold then flop is fold. also if he has lots of trips or better in his range then he's not that good, and when somebody is not that good in one area they are also not that good in other areas. so then defaulting to overall strength is often correct, and in that regards KK is monstrous here

[cardsman1992]

Isn't this Yeti theorem right here?