KK, A high flop, opp keeps checking ($27)

[taipan168]

No reads on opp. Value bet the turn or river?

Poker Stars No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1500
UTG+1: t1435
MP1: t1440
MP2: t1350
MP3: t1390
CO: t1380
Hero: t1465
SB: t2100
BB: t1440

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with K K
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t90, 4 folds, Hero raises to t300, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t210 (pot was t435).

Flop: 3 A 3 (t645, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 3 (t645, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: 8 (t645, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

[hangchiong]

i normally value bet on the turn,but his river check looks weak already.

[caddie444]

I always check behind this flop. After that its all about the pot control, I check turn as well.

The problem with leading the turn is that he may just smooth call with the ace as he's made a FH, or he may call with a lower pocket pair thinking we are full of it, so we still have no idea where we are.

I fire 200-300 on the river seeing as how an ace usually never checks 3 times, and he may pay you off with 99-QQ.

[d0zer]

I fire 200-300 on the river seeing as how an ace usually never checks 3 times, and he may pay you off with 99-QQ.

My thoughts exactly.

[fjuanl]

I think vbetting the river is the right decision, but I'd want it really tiny...like 200. Your certainly ahead...no one is checking Ax three times

[Stripclubjunkie]

But dont you want to bet coz of the FD or isn't that issue at this level?

Other than that i totally agree.

[fjuanl]

taipan has a full house

[caddie444]

But dont you want to bet coz of the FD or isn't that issue at this level?

I'm assuming you're asking why we don't bet on the flop when there's a flush draw right?

Sure there's a flush draw out there, but its such a tiny part of Villain's range.

Even if he did have a flush draw and we bet, he may check raise us and we'd have to fold.

The fact is its not really dangerous to give a free card here because if we're ahead, we're way ahead, and if we're behind, we're way behind.

Also if we are ahead, our hand has just turned into a bluff catcher, which is another good reason to check the flop.

It's usually always good to check these spots for pot control.

On the turn when we've made a full house we are no longer worried about the flush draw obv.

[donkbee]

300 on river sounds good.

We also have to call any check/raise, right?

[taipan168]

Yeah I agree, I should have value bet the river - he doesn't check three streets with an ace (or 3x or 88) and there are a bunch of hands that I beat that he calls a river bet with (smaller PPs, flushes).

[dsaxton]

We also have to call any check/raise, right?

I don't think so. If you're planning on calling a check-raise, then betting may be wrong (although I doubt it, since you're almost never getting check-raised).

I think the river is a bet, unless you have some read that he's an ultra nit. It's difficult for him to call with a range that's a favorite over your hand when he almost never has you beat.

[kmind]

I think you get one street of value by either betting turn or river, your choice. I think river is better.

[TLR]

If you bet the river I think you have to call a c-r - there is a decent chance villian has lower PP or air and thinks hero is trying to pick up the pot with nothing