KK with four callers.

[Rage2100]

Does anyone play this any differently? I did think of betting the river, but then changed my mind.

I'm loving the $3.40 turbos since going back to Stars. I used to hate them.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $3.00+$0.40 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) (t1435)
UTG+1 (t2745)
MP1 (t1585)
MP2 (t1515)
CO (t1650)
Button (t1485)
SB (t2705)
BB (t1880)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, K
Hero raises to t150, UTG+1 calls t150, 1 fold, MP2 calls t150, CO calls t150, 2 folds, BB calls t100

Flop: (t775) A, 9, Q (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks

Turn: (t775) 6 (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets t250, 1 fold, Hero calls t250, 2 folds

River: (t1275) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Total pot: t1275

[donkbee]

looks good to me except I probably raise to 200 preflop.

[TLR]

I would raise more preflop, UTG in this buy in make it 5BB

I would fold turn, but I dont think the call is that bad

[Ghaleon]

I would raise more pre-flop. Make it 225 to go. Once in a great while, if the table is loose, i will limp here and then come over the top of someone's raise and make it 450 - 600 to go. If they call I shove any non-ace flop.

Other than that, I think you did everything you could. With four callers, an ace high flop, and a flush hitting the turn, you have to pretty much shut down with KK.

I might even consider folding on the turn. With two players behind you and so many ways to lose, you can only really beat a bluff here.

Overall, you got a relatively cheap showdown and get out of the hand with your stack mostly intact.

[revolvingiris]

raise more preflop (4x-5x) but as you played postflop is fine. There is a lot of hands villain could bet here. I would say half of which you beat. His turn bet was rather weak (like 1/3 pot), I like a call here.

[drmcboy]

4 people say the same thing but not one of you says WHY raising more pre flop is better.

[TLR]

4 people say the same thing but not one of you says WHY raising more pre flop is better.

My reasoning for of bigger preflop raise

Your goal is to play KK heads up or max 3 ways.
Play at the lower buy in tends to be loose preflop, and players do not conserve their chips well enough, a bigger raise will hopefully force out the marginal hands that may call a smaller raise and get you a caller from somebody holding a decent hand

In addition since you are the first to act and there are 8 people left to act, if you raise 3BB and get 1 or 2 callers from EP or MP the pot odds you are laying for other players and escially the blinds makes gives them good pot odds to call. When an opponent calls with good pot odds (i.e. he plays good poker) it is bad for you.

Last reason, you are playing the pot OOP, which makes you want to narrow the field even more

[taipan168]

4 people say the same thing but not one of you says WHY raising more pre flop is better.

I didn't advocate raising more preflop, but if I did, my reasoning would be to a) try to narrow the field a bit more and avoid getting called by 4-5 opps since we're first to act and b) build the pot.

[drmcboy]

are we sure getting called by 5 people is bad?

[taipan168]

are we sure getting called by 5 people is bad?

It isn't, provided that the flop doesn't come A high or super drawy.

[mukaka]

the hand is played fine from beginning to the end IMO.. Turn is the most doubtful situation.. But I'm happy with the call since you have 4-card flush draw too and the bet is really small.. Also no one bet the flop so there is a small chance that no one has an Ace..

nh..

[TLR]

are we sure getting called by 5 people is bad?

You lose a lot value IMO, unless you hit your set even if the flop is not A high there is a decent chance someone has 2 pair, or a strong draw hand. Being OOP makes it even more problematic

[revolvingiris]

4 people say the same thing but not one of you says WHY raising more pre flop is better.

It this was in a later position, I would say 3x is fine. But since your UTG, raising 4x seems much stronger. We dont want random ATC in there waiting to hit it big. 2 callers Im ok with but once it gets more then that. Im looking to bet HARD on the flop. I would rather take down a small pot 3 way then get lucky facing 8 cards to the river.

[mieczkowusc]

Being UTG against this many people makes it pretty tough for KK on that flop. I don't think you played it badly at all. I definitely would have called the CO bet like you did.

Well done.

[drmcboy]

I strongly recommend you all read PNLHE because there is some bad thinking in this thread.

If it was 10/30 or 15/30 I'd agree with 5x or 4x, but only because we want to lower the SPR.

We have the second best hand in hold em, if people want to play against it you welcome them. It's about winning the most chips, not the most pots.

This hand is really easy to play if we get five callers. If an A comes, you give up. If not, you bet/call AI short of like a T98 suited flop. Being OOP is more or less meaningless with our stack size.

People flop two pair about 2% of the time.

While it's true that callers 4/5 may be getting an OK price to call hot and cold, they are not all in. If they play their hand perfect vs you this might be a problem but again it's much more likely they will flop TP and get it in horrible.

It isn't, provided that the flop doesn't come A high or super drawy.

I hope re reading this you see what poor, results oriented thinking this is.

[taipan168]

It isn't, provided that the flop doesn't come A high or super drawy.

I hope re reading this you see what poor, results oriented thinking this is.

Which is why I wasn't among those advocating raising more preflop - I was just trying to find justifications for raising more (not that I thought those reasons were necessarily good). I am fine playing this 4-5 handed on the flop. The scenarios where I thought that it would be bad playing this 4-5 handed are exactly those where you mentioned you wouldn't be prepared to commit on the flop.

[drmcboy]

I'm saying it's better or it isn't, it doesn't matter what comes on the flop.

[taipan168]

I'm saying it's better or it isn't, it doesn't matter what comes on the flop.

Agreed, which is why I am happy with a 3x (150) raise in the first place. An A high or super drawy flop is the only one where I wouldn't be prepared to commit my whole stack.

[revolvingiris]

I just dont see how only raising to 150 is even extracting max value. If your table is this loose then I would be raising to more around 300. We are looking to win the most chips, not beat the most players. IMO the best option is to find out your tables VP$IP and bet according to that. I will take the same pot with less players any day.

[drmcboy]

well, of course if you think all 5 will call 200, or if two people will call 300 you should raise that. Saying you should raise 6x BB because someone might call is a little weird. Usually, we'll be lucky to get called in 1-2 spots raising 3x.

OP says nothing about the table being loose.

[fjuanl]

ramble
I can see a lot of these flat callers checking the flop with Ax, so I wouldn't rule it out initially on the flop. But when the turn brings the 3rd diamond and all 4 players check to him AGAIN, he has to think his Ax is good and wants to protect it against diamond draws and get value from Qx. Instead CO bet really small so I'm pretty much ruling out Ax.
/ramble

Although you can probably get some more value from Qx, I think theres too many possible hands that got there to make a thin river vbet. 9x just got there and you can't rule out a turned flush. b/f'ing would be really awful

[Rage2100]

OP says nothing about the table being loose.

This wasn't a particularly loose table, so far as the $3.40s go. Most $3.40s are somewhat loose, but I was surprised when I got four callers. Usually, a 3x BB raise in this situation is fine, you almost always get one caller with some rubbish like A8, and occasionally two.

When the flop came down, I thought someone probably had an A, but after they all checked the flop, and then CO bet 250 on the turn, I wasn't convinced he had it.