How Important is ROI?

[Thunder]

I ask because having seen my ROI ground down in the past week, I just wanna cry when I look at my stats. Right now, I am thinking of starting at a new site to start anew. Sure the same thing may happen but am very deflated. Perhaps it's being results orientated but I'd prefer $500 profit with an 18% ROI than a 3% ROI and $1000 in the red.

[Sup3rM4N]

........What? Im a little confused...

R u talking about sharkscope? And u want to switch sites because of how your sharkscope results look? U know u can just filter it so it shows u for certain time frame right? Your graph probably is bad when u first started n then gets better as u got better...but switching sites for the reason u stated is one of the most ridiculous reason i have ever heard.

[kevster]

Move down in stakes?

[drmcboy]

Perhaps it's being results orientated but I'd prefer $500 profit with an 18% ROI than a 3% ROI and $1000 in the black.

I think this is what you meant

[mieczkowusc]

I'm confused, what exactly is the situation?

Also, if you ROI is being ground down in one week, you are probably too oriented on stats rather than how you are playing. I forget where the link is, but 100 games is only 23% likely to show your true wining percentage.

And if you having a tough time, move down in stakes.

[FlowJoe]

ROI isn't important as long as you don't mind losing your buy-in's. If your goal is to have fun and not make money, no problem. If you want to make money then + ROI is what you desire. Anyway who cares. Other players will underestimate your prowess and you can clean them like the little fishes that they are!!
Peace,
FLOW

[Thunder]

Situation is as in the first post. A very bad streak of variance has seen me lose $150 in a week, wiping out much of the profit I had made. Even if I was to win that $150 back, my ROI has been severely savaged and my sharkscope graph will be up and down like a tart's knickers.

I have never had such a downswing before whilst still playing calm. I have donked off an entire roll on tilt before, after losing 10 BI, but I have kept my head this time and just ran into pissed off poker gods. So do I start again at a new site and hope I win without experiencing such a swing? or is ROI not that important and just plug on ahead, hopefully getting back the lost dough and more?

[Outlaw]

Play the hand you are on to the best of your ability, rinse repeat. That's all you can do. If you start worrying about win % it will lead to pushing margins, chasing losses.. tilt.

If you are feeling like your game needs work, take a break and read/reread some books/posts... come back fresh.

PT3 breaks down your ROI month to month. I suggest you start each month fresh and forget the past. Screw Sharkscope, my suggestion is to turn off people's ability to search your name.

3% ROI over a lifetime is very good from what I understand.

GL,

Tj

[Rage2100]

I wouldn't worry about your Sharkscope stats. If you keep looking them up and are getting depressed by them, it is probably affecting the way you are playing too.

I would do as kevster and mieczkowusc said, and move down in stakes to get some confidence back.

I see no point in starting afresh at a different site, the same thing will almost certainly happen again. That's poker! If you keep doing this every time you experience a downswing, you will eventually run out of sites to play at.

[ghem67]

I ask because having seen my ROI ground down in the past week, I just wanna cry when I look at my stats. Right now, I am thinking of starting at a new site to start anew. Sure the same thing may happen but am very deflated. Perhaps it's being results orientated but I'd prefer $500 profit with an 18% ROI than a 3% ROI and $1000 in the red.

I wouldn't worry too much unless this is your graph:

[/img]

[Kijjo]

LOL classic fish graph, love it.
When u find this guy, ask him to multi a couple heads-up tables!

[Nakamura]

That graph is fantastic .... lol

[taipan168]

I ask because having seen my ROI ground down in the past week, I just wanna cry when I look at my stats. Right now, I am thinking of starting at a new site to start anew. Sure the same thing may happen but am very deflated. Perhaps it's being results orientated but I'd prefer $500 profit with an 18% ROI than a 3% ROI and $1000 in the red.

Sorry to hear about your downswing, it can be very frustrating. I would keep on plugging away, making sure you're posting hands/tourneys here for review to make sure that you really are playing your A game. When you're on a downswing, it is easy for a subtle form of tilt to creep into your decision making without you really noticing it (eg. you could be playing too tight as well as too loose for fear of getting sucked out on).

Changing sites is definitely not the answer. In fact, I read somewhere that a "downswing" or "upswing" is only ever in our minds because assuming we play the same game throughout, we have the same probability of winning or losing and a "downswing" is just a number of losing games in a row that our mind puts together in a pattern.

Plus, at the end of the day your stats aren't a badge of honour. We play this game to make money, at the end of the day who cares what your ROI is provided that your bankroll is growing.

Lastly, if it makes you feel any better, this is my Sharkscope graph. As you can see I have had some sickening downswings (including the most recent 40 BI downswing) but each time I have won back everything I have lost (and more):

[Thunder]

Thx guys. Your posts really helped regain compsoure, perspective, motivation and belief.

And Tai, your graph was a major part of getting me back on side, thx for sharing. Some sickening swings as you said but your graph still looks pretty damn good. All I have to do is knuckle down and plug away. I've already won double what I lost in one swing. Now for the next double up!

[drmcboy]

money is important

ROI is important in terms of determining your win rate which is helps select the best game for you, but you need a big sample.

Switching sites because your ROI looks bad is a pointer that you are overly concerned with looking good. That's time and energy that should be spend improving your game.

the poker mindset may help.

[bjsaust]

To me ROI is fairly meaningless other than for shits and giggles. By the time you have any kind of meaningfull sample for true ROI you should:

a) Have moved up, probably multiple times
b) Have gotten better in the meantime

Unless you're playing fulltime, BR is your best measure of success.

I mean, (gonna start a mini-rant now you've got me going), do people really look at their ROI and think "Wow, I'm not going too well, I should study more and get better?" or, "Cool, my ROI is fairly high, I should relax and stop working so hard on my game?" or stuff like that? What exactly do you plan to do if your ROI is higher or lower than some number?

Play as well as you can, study the game, review your play, get better, move up when your BRM strategy allows. ROI will take care of itself.

[Rage2100]

the poker mindset may help.

This is a really good book, and it may help you think about things in a slightly different way.