5/10 - 4bet pot, deep with big pair... facing donk shove

[griffey24]

-Villlain in this hand is a decent reg Jens LE
-We haven't really had many hands together today or much lately, but I know he rarely rarely folds to 3bets (fold to 3bet 48%) and his fold to 4bet is even lower (22%) considering that he 3bets a fair amount.. around 7
-Hero flats a bigish pair TT+ on button, because SB is a compulsive squeezer. Instead, SB flats and Villain squeezes (doesn't squeeze too too often)
-Hero 4-bets to isolate on CO flat, but instead gets called by villain. (sidenote: I think I 4bet way way way too big, and should have made it around $350ish)
-What's our calling range on flop if we have TT+. Do we fold KK/AA here? call TT? Obviously snap off QQ/JJ



$5/$10 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($985.00)
Hero (BTN) ($2962.60)
SB ($1149.75)
BB ($1861.00)

Pre-flop: ($15, 4 players) Hero is BTN with a PAIR TT+

CO raises to $30, Hero calls $30, SB calls $25, BB raises to $120, CO calls $90, Hero raises to $577, SB folds, BB calls $457, CO folds

Flop: ($1304, 2 players)
BB bets $1284, Hero calls with?

[nutsinho]

i think i would talk myself into calling with anything on the grounds that V prob puts us on AK due to our 4bet sizing and thought it would be a cool time to stop and go.

[Genitruc]

whoa the size of your 4 bet just confused the fk out of me

[Renton]

can't see really having TT or JJ, can't see folding AA, so i guess you should call it off with everything

but yeah the 4bet size is ridiculous

[Luke999]

Given that villain rarely folds to 4bets then I really can't see us folding here. Though given your 4bet sizing is it less likely he is calling with his usual wide range?

[griffey24]

Yah 4bet sizing, I was trying to make it look like some steal so that CO shipped lightish, and was surprised when villain called.

Either way it was too big.

(edit out hero's results/hand cause P4's doesn't want them yet! )

Villain SHOWED AKo, which I think is a pretty interesting hand to showup with here/play this way.

What do we think of villain's play?

[pocketfours]

Villains AK seems like an easy shove pre, his flop shove is not that bad though. I don't hate your preflop play as much as the others do.

We can't fold AA, since after villain calls, we could let him see our hand and still make a profit.

Don't post results, wtf?

[griffey24]

Villains AK seems like an easy shove pre, his flop shove is not that bad though. I don't hate your preflop play as much as the others do.

I always see people very willing to ship AKo in this spot sooo deep, meanwhile I look at this spot and feel like AKo should be folding as opposed to shipping here.

Villain doesn't know what CO has, and for all he knows CO could have AA/KK, not to mention the possibility that he's at best flipping against me likely, as played.

I'd fold if I was villain probably.. not sure how bad that is.

[pocketfours]

Villains AK seems like an easy shove pre, his flop shove is not that bad though. I don't hate your preflop play as much as the others do.

I always see people very willing to ship AKo in this spot sooo deep, meanwhile I look at this spot and feel like AKo should be folding as opposed to shipping here.

Villain doesn't know what CO has, and for all he knows CO could have AA/KK, not to mention the possibility that he's at best flipping against me likely, as played.

I'd fold if I was villain probably.. not sure how bad that is.

Oops, missed depth, sry. Folding is good yes.

[Genitruc]

omg you folded KK?

[griffey24]

omg you folded KK?

Would that be bad? I mean, what does he have here realistically to this action that we beat with KK? AK is the bottom bottom of his range, and given the PF call (and not jam) I think we have to discount him having this hand a lot.

IFFF somehow he calls pre with AQs or something, then I think that makes KK snap call too, but I'm really not even sure he'd call with that here, to my sizing and to the action.

[Genitruc]

i m not saying it would be bad or good, i m just marvelling at the entire hand

it kind of seems like monkeys clicking buttons

[griffey24]

i m not saying it would be bad or good, i m just marvelling at the entire hand

it kind of seems like monkeys clicking buttons

lol... it took two monkeys to pop that puppy up to $577 pre!

[Renton]

question: isn't kk better than aa in our position?

[griffey24]

question: isn't kk better than aa in our position?

I figured AA was better, cause KK could be shoving here, as opposed to us having KK and an insider, when we're also beat by AA which could be shipping.

[gabe]

i really like calling again pre and i dont think you can fold this flop, you have too much equity

[Alexos]

if its TT I would def call again preflop

as for on the flop, u have to call here, if he has QQ+ u got >30% (with TT, if its TT+ ur flipping) equity, if we add some random gay shit in his range its a clear call

preflop is very weird on so many lvls tho

[pocketfours]

Haha, now this whole thread one big mess :P

You shouldn't post what villain had. Posting what you had yourself is obviously fine. If you think a hand is more interesting for villain, then you can post it from his perspective like you have done before.

[griffey24]

Haha, now this whole thread one big mess :P

You shouldn't post what villain had. Posting what you had yourself is obviously fine. If you think a hand is more interesting for villain, then you can post it from his perspective like you have done before.

haha yah you're prob right. I definitely should have posted this from villain's perspective.

Anyhow, I didn't post it from my perspective entirely, since I had QQ this hand and it was an easssssy instasnap call on flop. BUT if I had KK here in this spot, I might have actually contemplated a fold.