Flopped set, heavy action

[pocketfours]

UTG is tight and a solid winner according to stats. UTG+1 and MP1 are both weak.

TEXAS_HOLDEM, NO_LIMIT
Seat 1: SB ($10,204 in chips)
Seat 2: HERO ($10,487 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG ($20,665 in chips)
Seat 4: UTG+1 ($13,003 in chips)
Seat 5: UTG+2 ($10,861 in chips)
Seat 6: MP1 ($22,202 in chips)
Seat 7: MP2 ($9,251 in chips)
Seat 8: MP3 ($20,450 in chips)
Seat 9: CUTOFF ($7,112 in chips)
Seat 10: BTN ($9,059 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts small blind ($50), HERO posts big blind ($100).

PRE-FLOP
UTG bets $200, UTG+1 calls $200, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $200, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CUTOFF folds, BTN calls $200, SB folds, HERO calls $100.

FLOP [board cards: 6S,QD,TH ]
HERO checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $1,050, MP1 calls $1,050, BTN folds, HERO bets $3,500, UTG bets $20,465 and is all-in, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, HERO ???.

[drmcboy]

is this the million?

I would just get it in and I would have shoved over to start with.

[fjuanl]

I don't see your hand but you should never fold a set on this board. no straights out there and set over set is so ridiculously rare

[chardrian]

I dunno what you had either. And I don't think I'm shoving on that dry of a board either.

[pocketfours]

This was the $300 BI GSOP Event 3 on Ongame with 10k starting stacks. I had 66.

Those who don't like folding, what is villains range here?

[drmcboy]

It looks bad but even if it's just AA plus the two sets it's still an easy call. If he would slow play a set here I don't see why he wouldn't slow play AA or even QT.

[pocketfours]

It looks bad but even if it's just AA plus the two sets it's still an easy call. If he would slow play a set here I don't see why he wouldn't slow play AA or even QT.

0% chance of this guy opening QT UTG. And if he is good as his stats indicate he certainly doesn't play AA like this.

[drmcboy]

shrug

you're willing to give donkament players more credit than I

[Sprayed]

I vote call his crazy shove as well.

[Fjaman]

Call, villains range AQ,AA,KK,Q10, 1010, QQ and maybe as crazy as KJ

[baudib]

I assume you have 66? I can't ever find a fold here.

[pocketfours]

Call, villains range AQ,AA,KK,Q10, 1010, QQ and maybe as crazy as KJ

Sigh. Yeah, tight players just love opening QT and KJ UTG, don't they?

Why should we assume that he plays like an idiot when I had checked his stats and they were good?

[Jack Sawyer]

'cause its a donkament, pocketfours

people minopen preflop with all sorts of crap

easy snap fistpump call imo, you are not laying down 66 here since you are much better than 50% vs his whole range (I think, but Im not that good with the numbers)

[pocketfours]

'cause its a donkament, pocketfours

people minopen preflop with all sorts of crap

easy snap fistpump call imo, you are not laying down 66 here since you are much better than 50% vs his whole range (I think, but Im not that good with the numbers)

It's not like I didn't like my hand, I was praying for the flop bettor to shove, but when the UTG raiser suddenly check/shoved COLD over my check/raise, it sure seemed like the nuts to me. Nothing else makes sense, and the nuts makes perfect sense. I would have bet the nuts myself, but many players will check the flop when they want more time to figure out how to play the hand. Just seems like a no brainer bet with an overpair.

QT makes some sense postflop, but I had sat next to this guy for over an hour and he seemed tight. By tight I mean someone who opens a range of 99+/AQs+/AK UTG. Why would he sit there and fold decent hands for an hour and suddenly decide to open QTs UTG?

He also shoved pretty fast, which was surprising because he certainly couldn't expect me to c/r in that spot. What can I have? My whole range there is 66/TT/QTs, possibly KJ/AQ/KQ against certain opponents, but never anything else. Seemed that it didn't matter to him...

He might have misplayed aces, but this is certainly not how any decent player should play them. If you decide to c/r but someone else beats you to it, at least you will think for a moment what he might have and what you want to represent, especially on a dry board like this, no? Very likely

I know how donkaments can be, but this was a high buy-in deep stack (400BB first level) event and all the good players seemed to play very solid poker.

[drmcboy]

I mean it should be a set but I just can't rule out something stupid with the price you're getting. He's a really good tight player but not good enough to mix up his play ever? But good enough to know what your range is? And good enough to know you're good and not some donk who sat'd in?

I'm not sure what you want us to say, this feels more like a Tales of Poker post to me.

I also disagree with the idea this board is dry, with 5 people in ignoring straight draws does not make sense to me.

[bigspenda73]

you'd be a lot better off posting this in high-stakes I think

what does flatting the flop bet do to your perceived range btw?

[pocketfours]

what does flatting the flop bet do to your perceived range btw?

What's the difference with my actual range and my perceived range in this context? The bettor and the caller are both fish, so I probably don't even have a perceived range

[pocketfours]

I mean it should be a set but I just can't rule out something stupid with the price you're getting. He's a really good tight player but not good enough to mix up his play ever? But good enough to know what your range is? And good enough to know you're good and not some donk who sat'd in?

I don't think this is a spot where you (villain) should be mixing it up, which is why I think this should qualify as a strat post You can't profitably make that cold shove with anything but a set or QT/KJ (if those are in your range) and mixing it up won't improve your profits.

Another reason that makes this a strat post is the point that I'm folding my whole range here and thats usually pretty horrible. There's no way villain could know that though.

You are certainly right in saying that we are getting a very good price and villain doesn't have to spew here very often for this to be a call. My personal opinion is that this is QQ/TT 95% of the time and that would make this a clear fold. That estimation is with reads from previous hands as well as timing tells.

If this was a low buy-in tournament with no reads on villain I'm snapping this every time (still expecting to be behind more often than not).

[bigspenda73]

P4's, they're both fish and you think their range for stacking off is solely sets?

start making sense please

[pocketfours]

P4's, they're both fish and you think their range for stacking off is solely sets?

start making sense please

Haha, the bettor and the caller are both fish. The guy who shoves cold is good. :P

[bigspenda73]

wow totally misread HH this entire time.

So he min-raises PF, then check/bombs cold over a bet/call and your raise

I'm not sure, if I'm UTG I could see myself c/bombing KK/AA/AQ here as well because the stacks are weird and playing multiple-street poker in MTTs makes people cringe.

[pocketfours]

I'm not sure, if I'm UTG I could see myself c/bombing KK/AA/AQ here as well because the stacks are weird and playing multiple-street poker in MTTs makes people cringe.

Sounds very marginal to me, but I'm sure you aren't happy-shoving 1.5 sec after you see my c/r, since you certainly didn't expect to see this much action when you decided to c/r yourself.

[bigspenda73]

well it looks like you're trying to convince the world it's OK to fold a set here, and it seems like you're pretty convinced you're right.

I dont listen to people that don't jam AJ on a JJxxx board live anyways

[Fjaman]

so you have the villain on basically 1010 and QQ nothing else, based on a PF min raise and a flop show over your reraise, nah im not seeing it, what about AA or KK why arent they a factor, people misplay aces all the time and cant ever fold them after the flop...

Im not folding a set here

[bigspenda73]

you guys are totally missing that villain c/r'ed over a bet and a raise after being the PF aggressor

you can include hands like AA/KK in his yet but they need to be heavily discounted. We'll still have 68-70BBs so I dont hate folding

[pocketfours]

well it looks like you're trying to convince the world it's OK to fold a set here, and it seems like you're pretty convinced you're right.

I think it's ridiculous to fold sets on flops...

[cremson687]

You could convince yourself to fold the set there but also like you said he could just be worried about the bad players in the hand from drawing or he could have AK and trying to just push people out. I find it hard to fold

[baudib]

I was thinking of this thread the other day when I got stacked with a set of 8s vs. a set of Aces. The funny thing is I put him on AA or KK by his reraise preflop. He was trying to slowplay it but I just kept jamming money into pot.

[RockyMoose]

Harrington has a small bit about set-over-set flops. He basically says that if someone else has a higher set, you're supposed to lose all your chips.

He then goes on to explain how when he hears someone tell a tale about how he shrewdly lay down a set after deducing that his opponent had a higher set, his immediate (but silent) reaction is: "idiot."

I tend to treat HOH as gospel (maybe to my detriment), but I'll concede that there may be times to lay down a set like this, but it's probably almost as rare as correctly laying down AA preflop, which we all know can occur.

In any case, I'd have called. Like I said, I treat HOH as gospel.

[nutsinho]

sigh, slowrolling isnt very nice