I made a retarded c-bet... do I have to call now?

[DoanDiggy]

My c-bet was really stupid because I didn't consider my opponent's stack size, and I think I priced myself into calling. Pot odds say call here, but is this a spot where tourney strategy differs from a cash game?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $3.00+$0.40 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t1370)
SB (t2355)
BB (t1740)
UTG (t2160)
Hero (MP1) (t3020)
MP2 (t2360)
CO (t1555)

Hero's M: 20.13

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 10, Q
1 fold, Hero raises to t300, 1 fold, CO calls t300, 3 folds

Flop: (t750) J, 8, K (2 players)
Hero bets t500, CO raises to t1255 (All-In), Hero ???

[Nakamura]

I would say yes. You have the pot odds to call and you are still clearly in the game if you lose. I'm not loving having to call here tho.

[DoanDiggy]

Thanks, that's pretty much how I felt. So what's the best flop play? Only betting like 1/2 pot, or just checking? Checking seems really weak. At least with a 1/2 pot bet, I can easily fold to a shove.

[taipan168]

Personally I would fold QTs from UTG+1. There are some stacks that can hurt you still to act and if flat called you stand a good chance of being OOP on the flop.

As played, I am not sure I would c-bet that flop with two broadway cards and a flush draw on board. I think I check and see what opp does (and hope for a free card). Second best choice would be to bet 1/2 pot so you can still fold to a shove.

As you played it, getting 3.3 to 1 to hit an OESD (which you're 2.2 to 1 against to hit) you can't fold to the shove.

[baudib]

You gotta call now.

Perfect illustration of why not to play hands like this OOP.

We're creating a big pot with a marginal holding and when we catch a piece of the flop or a draw, it's very likely, in a raised pot, that villain has caught an even bigger part of it.

Reverse positon on this: You raise with QT on the button and get called by KJ in the BB. More likely than not he is looking to check-raise your cbet. Instead you check behind and look to turn the nuts.

One of the biggest improvements I've made in my game is to not force the issue OOP.

[DoanDiggy]

Yeah, I wasn't intending to actually play this hand. The table hadn't been terribly loose, and my hope was to take down the blinds. At worse, I figured to be able to play it in position against the blinds.

Now that I think of it, I agree with taipan that I can check this flop with a short stack behind me. Originally I thought it kind of put my hand faceup, but I would be reasonably likely to do the same thing with AK, AA, KK, KJ, KQ, etc. I know range balancing isn't terribly important at these stakes, but I'm trying to get into good habits.

And if I was in position, I would definitely check behind.

[gingerwizard]

I think you have to cbet it. Just smaller.

Best advice in this thread was not to open from ep with junk

[DoanDiggy]

I would fold QTs most of the time here with lower blinds or with a shorter stack, but I was hoping to cheaply take down the blinds or to play against the blinds with position. If a big stack with position had flatted me, I figured to have a pretty good implied odds hand (although the reverse-implied odds are pretty bad, but I think I'm pretty good at being careful in those situations).

Of course, everything that I was hoping for didn't happen, and then I played it horribly postflop. Considering how I played it here, folding QTs would have definitely been the better EV play to make.

[IhaveTopTop]

Lots of good points in the previous posts. In my opinion, you definitely have to call the all-in at this point. Even if you lose, you still have enough chips to work with.