A few all-in hands for comment

[DoanDiggy]

I had 3 different all-in hands that I thought were just on the good side of marginal, so I thought I'd get some opinions on them.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t2415)
UTG+1 (t3190)
MP1 (t2115)
MP2 (t1961)
CO (t1660)
Button (t2672)
Hero (BB) (t1100)

Hero's M: 14.67

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, K
UTG calls t50, UTG+1 calls t50, 1 fold, MP2 calls t50, 2 folds, Hero raises to t250, UTG calls t200, UTG+1 calls t200, 1 fold

Flop: (t800) 9, J, 8 (3 players)
Hero bets t850 (All-In)

Here I could have just checked preflop, but there's a decent amount of dead money in the pot so I want to raise it up. I figured to have enough chips to bet/fold a lot of flops against one caller, and if more than that called, I thought there would be a decent amount of flops that I could just shove on. Most of the time I just expect a bunch of folds preflop, or a shove that I'll have to fold to.

So the flop comes and I have the gutshot and 2 overs for 7-10 outs against most callers. I figured I had fold equity against hands like A-high, KQ, low pocket pairs, an 8, and maybe a 9. Do you like the shove here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t1565)
BB (t1765)
UTG (t1936)
MP (t1585)
CO (t910)
Hero (Button) (t2775)

Hero's M: 18.50

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6, A
3 folds, CO raises to t300, Hero raises to t910

This hand was highly situational: BB was sitting out. I figured CO's range for opening here was huge, including a lot of broadway hands that they would probably call with. With all the dead money and the fact that I still have a good stack if I lose, I liked shoving here. Do you ever make this play?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 (t7025)
CO (t128)
Button (t2295)
Hero (SB) (t1850)
BB (t4490)
UTG (t3328)
UTG+1 (t1660)
MP1 (t2295)

Hero's M: 8.22

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2, A
3 folds, MP2 raises to t450, CO calls t128 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls t375, 1 fold

Flop: (t1178) J, 8, 10 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t1350, Hero raises to t1400 (All-In)

Here I made a pretty loose call preflop, but I see a lot of checkdowns in pots with a player who is all-in, meaning that I have a pretty good chance of at least getting to the turn and maybe having a flush draw by then. I'm getting 2.14:1 to make the call. My A-high has some showdown value, and if I hit an A or a 2, I can usually put in a small bet and take down the side pot right there. I think I should've shoved this particular flop, though. As played, I'm getting almost 1.8:1 to call with my overcard + flush draw. If the following range is reasonable to open and then shove on this board, my call is good.

Board: Js 8s Tc
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	44.276%  	42.99% 	01.29% 	         76605 	     2295.00   { As2s }
Hand 1: 	55.724%  	54.44% 	01.29% 	         97005 	     2295.00   { 88+, A8s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

I think I didn't shove because I felt like my equity was so good that I didn't want to blow him out of the pot with the hands he'll shove that I'm farthest ahead of, like KQ and K9, and I was also thinking that weak pairs (e.g. KT, low pockets) might just give me a chance to improve for free. I think it's close, maybe check/call all-in isn't much worse than open shoving. I'm sure the advice on this one is just going to be fold preflop, though.

[gingerwizard]

I had 3 different all-in hands that I thought were just on the good side of marginal, so I thought I'd get some opinions on them.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t2415)
UTG+1 (t3190)
MP1 (t2115)
MP2 (t1961)
CO (t1660)
Button (t2672)
Hero (BB) (t1100)

Hero's M: 14.67

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, K
UTG calls t50, UTG+1 calls t50, 1 fold, MP2 calls t50, 2 folds, Hero raises to t250, UTG calls t200, UTG+1 calls t200, 1 fold

Flop: (t800) 9, J, 8 (3 players)
Hero bets t850 (All-In)

Here I could have just checked preflop, but there's a decent amount of dead money in the pot so I want to raise it up. I figured to have enough chips to bet/fold a lot of flops against one caller, and if more than that called, I thought there would be a decent amount of flops that I could just shove on. Most of the time I just expect a bunch of folds preflop, or a shove that I'll have to fold to.

So the flop comes and I have the gutshot and 2 overs for 7-10 outs against most callers. I figured I had fold equity against hands like A-high, KQ, low pocket pairs, an 8, and maybe a 9. Do you like the shove here?
No I don't. I think the raise pre is the bad thing. As played it's shove or shut down. You just don't have the cards to raise UTG limpers out of the blinds. You'll almost certainly get a call, and you have a marginal hand OOP post flop. I check pre, and then I have a small pot OOP, which is what I want. If you do this repeatedly you'll bust far to early in lots of SNGs

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t1565)
BB (t1765)
UTG (t1936)
MP (t1585)
CO (t910)
Hero (Button) (t2775)

Hero's M: 18.50

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6, A
3 folds, CO raises to t300, Hero raises to t910

This hand was highly situational: BB was sitting out. I figured CO's range for opening here was huge, including a lot of broadway hands that they would probably call with. With all the dead money and the fact that I still have a good stack if I lose, I liked shoving here. Do you ever make this play?

I wonder why CO isn't shoving and I'm wary. I fold this because CO has a pot odds call if I shove over, and A6o is crap. Aggro big stack is fine, but not when opponents are already committed and you have nothing.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 (t7025)
CO (t128)
Button (t2295)
Hero (SB) (t1850)
BB (t4490)
UTG (t3328)
UTG+1 (t1660)
MP1 (t2295)

Hero's M: 8.22

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2, A
3 folds, MP2 raises to t450, CO calls t128 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls t375, 1 fold

Flop: (t1178) J, 8, 10 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t1350, Hero raises to t1400 (All-In)

Here I made a pretty loose call preflop, but I see a lot of checkdowns in pots with a player who is all-in, meaning that I have a pretty good chance of at least getting to the turn and maybe having a flush draw by then. I'm getting 2.14:1 to make the call. My A-high has some showdown value, and if I hit an A or a 2, I can usually put in a small bet and take down the side pot right there. I think I should've shoved this particular flop, though. As played, I'm getting almost 1.8:1 to call with my overcard + flush draw. If the following range is reasonable to open and then shove on this board, my call is good.

Board: Js 8s Tc
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	44.276%  	42.99% 	01.29% 	         76605 	     2295.00   { As2s }
Hand 1: 	55.724%  	54.44% 	01.29% 	         97005 	     2295.00   { 88+, A8s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

I think I didn't shove because I felt like my equity was so good that I didn't want to blow him out of the pot with the hands he'll shove that I'm farthest ahead of, like KQ and K9, and I was also thinking that weak pairs (e.g. KT, low pockets) might just give me a chance to improve for free. I think it's close, maybe check/call all-in isn't much worse than open shoving. I'm sure the advice on this one is just going to be fold preflop, though.

The reason this is a fold preflop is that you don't have enough chips to smooth call. Smooth calling here is a losing play over time. I don't open shove because there's a chance I'll get a free card because of the AI player.

When he bets pot I fold cos I don't have the odds, and his line screams over pair or AK over played. I.e. I think I'm beat always here based on his line and I don't have the correct odds to improve.

[DoanDiggy]

I think the raise pre [on the KQ hand] is the bad thing. As played it's shove or shut down. You just don't have the cards to raise UTG limpers out of the blinds. You'll almost certainly get a call, and you have a marginal hand OOP post flop. I check pre, and then I have a small pot OOP, which is what I want. If you do this repeatedly you'll bust far to early in lots of SNGs

Thanks a lot for the advice. It definitely looks like I need to adjust my preflop strategy in tourneys. Would this be a raise in a cash game or if I had more chips?

I wonder why CO isn't shoving and I'm wary. I fold this because CO has a pot odds call if I shove over, and A6o is crap. Aggro big stack is fine, but not when opponents are already committed and you have nothing.

CO isn't shoving because this is a $1.20 tournament. He does have pot odds to call, I just think that A6 fares well against his opening and calling range. A6o isn't total crap... it has good showdown value against all of the unpaired broadway cards he's calling me with here. In this particular instance, I got exactly the call I wanted, KJ, but he hit his K on the river to beat me.

When he bets pot I fold cos I don't have the odds, and his line screams over pair or AK over played. I.e. I think I'm beat always here based on his line and I don't have the correct odds to improve.

I tightened up his range a ton (too much I think), and it's still a pot-odds call:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

  47,520  games     0.003 secs    15,840,000  games/sec

Board: Js 8s Tc
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	39.519%  	38.44% 	01.08% 	         18265 	      514.50   { As2s }
Hand 1: 	60.481%  	59.40% 	01.08% 	         28226 	      514.50   { TT+, 88, AKs, AJs, KJs, AKo, AJo }

I agree, though, that with my stack I should have just folded preflop. With a bigger stack here, a call makes a lot more sense.

[gingerwizard]

Not sure it's an ICM call.

To answer first question it's not a raise in a cash game cos you will be OOP post flop. It's a very difficult hand to play out of position when you are the aggressor. It's also a small pot hand, and the raise OOP and cbet makes a big pot.

[Rage2100]

I agree with everything gingerwizard says.

Hand 1: Check pre-flop.
Hand 2: Fold pre-flop.
Hand 3: Fold pre-flop.

[Nakamura]

I agree with everything gingerwizard says.

Hand 1: Check pre-flop.
Hand 2: Fold pre-flop.
Hand 3: Fold pre-flop.

+1

[DoanDiggy]

Thanks for all of the advice. Sorry for oftentimes defending my play instead of being grateful for the feedback.

On the KQo hand, if I had checked the pot would be 225, with my stack at 1050. I assume we're just checking/folding this flop? With decent equity (esp if I can get A-high and low pairs to fold) I almost want to bet like 150 in hopes that we can either take down the pot or get to see two more cards, but I'm guessing this is just spewing. Thoughts?

I ran the A6o hand against approximately the top 28% of hands (what seemed like a reasonable opening range in this instance), and my equity isn't quite 44%. My pot odds on shoving say I need to be 46%. Considering that I have no fold equity and that I'm not accounting for SB possibly having a hand, this was definitely a bad shove. For this to be a more reasonable shove, taking into account ICM and SB still to act, I probably need to have at least ATo or A9s.

The general consensus on the A2s hand (myself included) is obviously to fold preflop, but what about postflop? Shove, check/shove, or check/fold?

[drmcboy]

def shove the A2s as played, MP2 will (should) shove a lot of hands that you would rather he fold, mostly bigger Axs but sometimes PPs or 8x types.

[taipan168]

From reviewing some of your other play, I think you have a (mild) case of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome) which is definitely not necessary at the $1.20s. Just play straightforward ABC TAGG poker against these donks and you'll be fine.

Also, if you don't already have it, download SNG Wiz and run some hands through it. There is a 30 day free trial before you have to buy.

On the KQo hand, if I had checked the pot would be 225, with my stack at 1050. I assume we're just checking/folding this flop? With decent equity (esp if I can get A-high and low pairs to fold) I almost want to bet like 150 in hopes that we can either take down the pot or get to see two more cards, but I'm guessing this is just spewing. Thoughts?

Yes, I would check preflop and with no K/Q/draw on the flop just check/fold to any bet. Betting 150 is spewing chips because you're first to act, there are three opps in the pot and that flop is likely to have hit whatever crap they limped.

The general consensus on the A2s hand (myself included) is obviously to fold preflop, but what about postflop? Shove, check/shove, or check/fold?

I agree with drmcboy, with the nut flush draw and an overcard I open shove this one.

[DoanDiggy]

From reviewing some of your other play, I think you have a (mild) case of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome) which is definitely not necessary at the $1.20s. Just play straightforward ABC TAGG poker against these donks and you'll be fine.

You're right. Part of the problem is that I previously had a bankroll over $600 and was playing the $10 SNGs. After making a withdrawal and having a downturn, I had to drop down in stakes, and I was definitely overplaying. I have started to fix some of these issues and I think I'm playing much better as a result.

I also was trying the whole laggy thing for a while, and that really influenced my postflop play. I think I learned some valuable skills and found myself reading my opponents better, but for now I have tightened up, and I'm only rarely making the kinds of bluffs that I had been making on a regular basis.

Also, if you don't already have it, download SNG Wiz and run some hands through it. There is a 30 day free trial before you have to buy.

I'll keep that in mind. Right now I'm not running Windows, and I've started leaning more towards cash games, with the occasional MTT thrown in. When I have some extra money to buy Windows, I'll be picking up PokerTracker 3 and SNG Wiz.

Yes, I would check preflop and with no K/Q/draw on the flop just check/fold to any bet. Betting 150 is spewing chips because you're first to act, there are three opps in the pot and that flop is likely to have hit whatever crap they limped.

Cool, that's what I thought. I just find it interesting that in one instance, shoving this board with this hand is the right play, and in another instance, check/folding is better.

[baudib]

As played, I don't mind the KQ shove. I would just check this in the BB tho.

The A6o hand is awful. Even when you're "ahead" you're really flipping (55-45) at best (whether it's with KJ, 87, QT) or you're totally crushed (bigger A, 77+).

IMO, always be wary of shortstack raises that aren't open-shoves.

[DoanDiggy]

I was just thinking... if you're CO here with rags and just under 10BB, do you think open/fold is a good play? Obviously I'm shoving any decent hand, but with total rags, I don't think we have to risk our tournament life to find out we're beat, and those 150 chips are looking pretty good. Like you guys said, a lot of smart players tend to be wary of shortstack raises, so this seems almost less likely to see action than a shove would.

[taipan168]

Yes, I would check preflop and with no K/Q/draw on the flop just check/fold to any bet. Betting 150 is spewing chips because you're first to act, there are three opps in the pot and that flop is likely to have hit whatever crap they limped.

Cool, that's what I thought. I just find it interesting that in one instance, shoving this board with this hand is the right play, and in another instance, check/folding is better.

I can't think of an instance where open shoving this hand would be the right play with all other factors being the same.

[gingerwizard]

If I'm CO with rags here i definitely open fold.