6 max Question

[Sprayed]

What makes the bubble in a 6 max different from a 9 max turbo SNG besides the payout? Why is it that in a 6 max you are shoving a narrower range when short and on the bubble compared to 9 man?

[gingerwizard]

The pot is bigger in a 9 man, so your potential equity is larger relative to your BR and starting stack. Hence you should naturally be more risk averse, and shove wider.

Your potential reward for gaining chips in a 6 man SNG is less for the same buy in, therefore intuitively you should not be as risk prone as normal.

Even if we think ICM is dick (which it is), this logic should still hold.

[Sprayed]

Also why is it that you can't shove wide on shorties on the bubble?

Example:
300/600/50

BN 4167
SB 2570
BB 2263

I would think that you could shove the shit out of the shorties with a wide range. In a 9 man, I would shove all day if I was buton. In this spot according to wiz you need 33+, A5+, A2s+, KT+, K9s+, QJs 21% against average players. Due to the wanting to money, I would think that blinds couldn't call unless they had a monster. Therefore, you could shove much wider. What don't I get?

[gingerwizard]

The equity you gain by folding hands is not as great as it is in a 9-man. That is because there is less in the pot to begin with.

Hence the articficial reward bestowed upon you by ICM by folding hands here is not as great, as there is not enough money in the lottery for you to split as potential winnings

[Sprayed]

Interesting, these could be a lot of fun. According to stars VIP calculator, 6 max is more profitable for accumulating FPPs and VPPs than any other NL game. I might fool around with them.

Ginger, you play these? Anyone else? Besides the ICM changes due to payout structure, any other advice that is counter intuitive to 9 man?

[baudib]

What I have to say about 6-max STT or MTT may sound contradictory but I'll give it a shot:

Most people say to open up your ranges a bit but I went to the FT in a 6-max MTT by playing even tighter than usual.

I probably abuse the button more in 6-max than full table and I 3-bet the button and SB from the BB with a huge range of hands.

There are more stealing opportunities once the blinds go past 100 because you get to the bubble very quickly, obviously.

Your reads are really important because you have such an "intimate" relationship with each player. It's important to note what Player A does on the button and what Player B is limping UTG with, etc. Clearly, I think you have less fear of the UTG raise and you can open UTG more loosely (although I think you may be raise-folding UTG more often. At least in my case -- the hands I raise UTG in 9-man are generally hands I'm going to the felt with).

[gingerwizard]

I play them sometimes cos they fill up on betfair quicker than the 9-man ones.

There is more poker to play as Baudib says. It's just that ICM based decisions call for you to be tighter.

Think about it this way. In a nine man there are 3 more buyins in the pot, and three extra stacks worth of chips. Hence there is a larger prize pool and more "lottery tickets" to it, (the ICM assumption).

When you hit the bubble 5 people are out, that's 5 stacks full of tickets to the pool to split between 4. You're percentage of those tickets is important for working out your equity, and with so many tickets floating around you have to be active in getting them.

In a 6 man on the bubble, only 3 have gone. There are less tickets to get, so you'll already have a larger percentage of total tickets. If you already have a larger percentage and so do your opponents, then you shouldn't be willing to risk it all to increase it a little bit.

Maybe later I'll try to write this more mathematically.

Personally I think there's more value in playing the 9-man ones, as you can fold your way to 6 at the table nearly every time and be playing for all that dead money!