Can I fold KK here????

[baudib]

We're on the bubble, 90 man SNG, 11 left. Moved to new table and didn't have a lot of experience with this villain but he seemed pretty tight, didn't make a move or play a hand in two orbits . I know I'm way ahead of a range of AK-AQ, JJ+ but this is the first time I thought about actually folding KK preflop.

No Limit Holdem Tournament
$24 + $2 KO Sit & Go
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Nitehawk2 (6350)
UTG+1 Hakflem (21490)
CO nevskyy (43775)
BTN TNKK (33505)
SB Robbedibob (11290)
BB Hero (24618)

Blinds: 1000/2000 Ante 250

Pre-flop: (4,500, 6 players) Hero is BB
Nitehawk2 goes all-in 6,100, Hakflem goes all-in 21,240, 3 folds, Hero calls 19,240

[cremson687]

If it was me i make the same play because you have to think the large stack is just trying to isolate here and take out a player. Unless you have a read you can't lay down a chance to become a monster chip leader.

[Pino_Diablo]

i would think about it too, and probably fold and cringe.

you having basically nothing but one all-in call if you lose, the short stack trebles and the villian beats you with a suckout.

let someone else break the bubble.

just a different point of view.

[dthorne04]

this is a joke post right

p.s. i'm happy you didn't fold

[baudib]

As principle I would never fold KK preflop but it was a long day of losing titanic pots to 2- and 3-outers.

[dthorne04]

fair enough, but you shouldn't make posts fueled by a results oriented outlook (whether it be temporary or permanent) as it does no one (including yourself) any good.

[bigspenda73]

Baudib's training site:

www.foldtocash.com

[Sup3rM4N]

If your playing MTT's to just make the money (no clue why someone would play MTTs just for that), fold.

If your trying to go deep and win as much $ as possible, call.

[baudib]

Baudib's training site:

www.foldtocash.com

Surely you've noticed that most of my posts revolve around decisions to fold or call all-ins in huge spots...or do I fold to get another $1,000 or push with AQ and...I call/push all of them.

[Sprayed]

Certainly ICM plays a part in this hand but KK is a call. I don't think that you get your chips in with anything less than QQ+, AK in this spot.

[baudib]

fair enough, but you shouldn't make posts fueled by a results oriented outlook (whether it be temporary or permanent) as it does no one (including yourself) any good.

I understand that. I know in general I can't ever fold KK preflop without a STRONG read that villain is holding the rockets. But there must be some ICM situations where you can fold KK because of the 30 % chance or so that you'll lose to a random AX. I suppose this isn't really close though.

[Sabr1988]

I would never fold a KK preflop, never. If it may getting me out of a game, then I'm unlucky. Poker is also about luck, remember that.

You do never know if a player is faking or what he is in online games, but the chances are really big.

Not even sure they sat with an A. Or maybe Nitehawk2 had QJ, JJ, or QQ, and Hakflem maybe thoght he had QJ or KQ or something like that, and just went AI with A(4,5,6,7,8,9 or 10) and tried to get other players to fold because of the feel unsure.

I never had folded KK preflop before, and never will.

[rewfie40]

There just really isn't that much action in the pot. A guy with 3bb pushes and a guy with 10.5 comes over the top. This is super standard with so many hands. I don't know how this action could ever lead you to thinking folding KK is a good idea. Personally, I would have a tough time folding JJ here simply on the fact that this guy easily could be doing this with AQ or AK let alone AJ or 1010.

[dthorne04]

fair enough, but you shouldn't make posts fueled by a results oriented outlook (whether it be temporary or permanent) as it does no one (including yourself) any good.

I understand that. I know in general I can't ever fold KK preflop without a STRONG read that villain is holding the rockets. But there must be some ICM situations where you can fold KK because of the 30 % chance or so that you'll lose to a random AX. I suppose this isn't really close though.

you would've never made this post if you hadn't had a bad session prior, though. and you know better. sometimes i think your posts seem to have an overly results oriented outlook, and i think both of us know that is a problem/leak.

[baudib]

Actually most of the threads I start are based on hands I've won...for example the two AK hands.

Most of my mistakes come from erring on the side of over-aggression/too much risk; i.e. pushing TT on a low flop vs. a tight UTG raiser; four-betting with AQ; pushing over a min-raise on the turn when someone has clearly cracked my AA, etc.

[Pino_Diablo]

Actually most of the threads I start are based on hands I've won...for example the two AK hands.

Most of my mistakes come from erring on the side of over-aggression/too much risk; i.e. pushing TT on a low flop vs. a tight UTG raiser; four-betting with AQ; pushing over a min-raise on the turn when someone has clearly cracked my AA, etc.

so what happened or am i blind and dumb? i seem to be the only one who would have folded.

[baudib]

Results don't matter, but he had AK and Ace hit on river.

[JR9477]

Another vote for calling. Most of time you do win here and you're going to the final table in great shape.

[sinister1]

You should only fold in this spot if you are POTRIPPER and can see that villain holds AA.

[sk8r_daniel]

The way the blinds are makes his range look like a standard isolation push with anywhere from 99+ AJs + AQo+ imo. KK dominates most of his range a chance at more than doubling up puts you in great position. You are only dominated by one hand and how often is that going to happen. Given he value of the chips you gain and you being well above his range makes this an easy call.

QQ I would call also. With JJ.....and no read I would probably pansy out and fold.

[baudib]

Well KK crushes every range that isn't specifically AA.

[dthorne04]

Well KK crushes every range that isn't specifically AA.

wat

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 77.382% 70.35% 07.03% 50594604 5056266.00 { KK+ }
Hand 1: 22.618% 15.59% 07.03% 11209632 5056266.00 { KK }

[baudib]

Or that.

[gingerwizard]

Surely if you're on the bubble, the only way you don't cash is if shortie ALSO beats your KK. Given that it's so unlikely for two hands to beat you, you should be AI here as if just after the bubble, and it should make no difference.