Question about pairs

[Marbleboy]

Just wondering, when facing a raise with pockets up to 99, do i cap the call at 10% of my stack or villians stack?

[bigspenda73]

which one do you think it should be?

[Sprayed]

Apparently, I have a leak with calling raises with pps as well. From what I understand from reading Fnord's post and the thread started by busto, I would need at least 20x their raise in order to call. So, if I have 22 and opponent raised 60 when blinds are 10/20, opponent's stack and my stack should at least be 1200. Am I correct?

I've been living by the 10% rule. In other words, I've been calling raises when their raise is 10% of their stack and it is not >10% of my stack. So with the example above, I would be calling if they raised 120 with a stack of 1200 or if my stack and theirs was at least 1200. Looking at this and reading the stickies, this seems bad to me.

There is a section in Kill Everyone where the authors suggest using 5% and 10% rule. They state that they call when 5% of opponents stack or their stack and fold when 10%. In between are judgment calls. 8% is normally a call. 10% is a fold or shove.

[bigspenda73]

So with the example above, I would be calling if they raised 120 with a stack of 1200 or if my stack and theirs was at least 1200.

gross

[baudib]

I go with closer to 5% with pairs under 77 and lean toward folding regardless of stack sizes if I'm in the SB vs. a single EP/MP raiser. I'm folding the best hand and not setting enough to make it worthwhile.

[gingerwizard]

The reason 10% is bad is because that number has been derived assuming your opponent stacks off if you hit. (I think it does include the beats you take when he stacks off and wins).

However since he won't, closer to 5% is far better. I.e. both you and your opponent should have ~20 times the amount required to call. I persoanlly don't mind ~15 for tournaments and SNGs, because they may not always stack off, but they will almost always cbet, and stack off lighter than in cash games IMO.

[baudib]

Even in cash games, calling off 10% with 22 is pretty gross imo.

[gingerwizard]

In cash you need 5% or lower. In tournaments, my point is that TPTK is much more likely to go all the way than in a deep cash game, so the probability of a stacking off increases and hence perhaps 7.5% is not too bad.

[Sprayed]

So with the example above, I would be calling if they raised 120 with a stack of 1200 or if my stack and theirs was at least 1200.

gross

Yes, I can see that now. I've been living a lie.

[mcatdog]

In cash you need 5% or lower. In tournaments, my point is that TPTK is much more likely to go all the way than in a deep cash game, so the probability of a stacking off increases and hence perhaps 7.5% is not too bad.

This is really wrong IMO. Yes people are less likely to fold TPTK in tournaments, but due to the presence of antes they're also showing up with much weaker ranges in the first place. If you flop a set in a tournament, very often people don't have a hand that can even consider getting all-in.

Even despite the 5% rule, I still don't fold pairs like 88-TT to a single raise very often at all, because I think I can usually play them profitably postflop without hitting a set. 22-77 are usually hitting the muck if I don't have set odds and have too many chips to 3-bet and get it in.

[bigspenda73]

So with the example above, I would be calling if they raised 120 with a stack of 1200 or if my stack and theirs was at least 1200.

gross

Yes, I can see that now. I've been living a lie.

<3

me too, but not poker-related

[gingerwizard]

How often do we get cbet when we flop a set, and if we raise it how often is that raise called by a hand that would not consider stacking off?

Do these additions to your stack when you hit a set but don't get AI help loosen the 5%?

[Marbleboy]

I havnt read the rest of the post after Spendas first post purposely, My answer would be 10% of villains stack because that would give me the right odds of calling due to his stack size? correct me if im wrong but if he has 100 and bets 10 (10%) I can call because the odds of me hitting a set on the flop is 5 to 1, (?) and allthough im getting 2 to 1 immediate pott odds im looking at felting his stack

[gingerwizard]

Read the rest of the thread

[Marbleboy]

call 10% of villians stack only as I will only hit the set 1 out of 8 times so I need the implied odds to make it a profitable call?