KQo in SB vs. Big stack button, 6-max

[baudib]

Full Tilt, 600/1,200 blinds, 150 ante NL Hold'em Tourney, 6 Players

UTG: 47,995 (40 bb)
BTN: 76,500 (63.8 bb)
Hero (SB): 52,839 (44 bb)
BB: 9,895 (8.2 bb)
MP: 45,751 (38.1 bb)
CO: 32,785 (27.3 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with Q K
3 folds, BTN raises to 3,000, Hero calls 2,400, BB folds

Flop: (8,100) J 2 K (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets 6,000
Hero??

Just second orbit at table, villain seems to be typical big stack late in MTT. I had tussled with him on one hand when I raised him on the flop with 99 on a T76 board.

I think there are good arguments for folding preflop as well and I think all actions on the flop are reasonable, but I'd like to hear what others say.

[donkbee]

I think there are good arguments for folding preflop

I'd raise this hand preflop before I'd fold it.

P.S. why are there no suits, do they not matter?

[baudib]

I never like 3-betting with KQ because it flops so well and you always have to fold to a 4-bet/shove.

[dthorne04]

baudib, your logic seems a bit off here imo

[mcatdog]

KQ is a hand that you can 3-bet if your opponent likes to call 3-bets, but not if they like to 4-bet bluff a lot. Even if 3-betting might be a little better, calling is never that bad.

I don't know why you think all options on the flop are reasonable, it's between calling, or raising and calling a shove / shoving any turn if he calls. What other options do you think you have?

[baudib]

I'm never stacking off with KQo preflop with 40 BBs so I don't want to get 4-bet with KQ like ever.

I think all options on the flop (except C-F) are reasonable:
1. I can lead the flop.
2. I can check-call the flop.
3. I can check-raise/call shove on the flop.

What's my plan on the turn?

[chardrian]

oop I am usually c/r here with your limited read.

[baudib]

oop I am usually c/r here with your limited read.

That's what I did.

Are we willing to felt this always?

[baudib]

baudib, your logic seems a bit off here imo

My logic is this: if we 3-bet the button here he folds all of his air and rarely folds a better hand except very small pairs and A-rag. On the other hand he's calling/4-betting with all the hands that beat us/have us crushed and it's a shame to have to fold preflop when we could easily have good equity against, say, TT or AJ. If he just calls then we've created a huge pot oop with a hand that's crushed by his calling range.

I'd rather 3-bet with 77 than KQ.

[baudib]

I don't know why you think all options on the flop are reasonable, it's between calling, or raising and calling a shove / shoving any turn if he calls.

Are you shoving an Ace turn?

[bigspenda73]

yea leading is bad unless you think he'll shove to like a min-donk

[baudib]

OK I'm left with two questions:

1. When villain shows up at the top of his range here, is it just a cooler and we move on?
2. Or is there merit in not getting involved in this type of situation with a hand like KQo? Unlikely villain is calling our reraise or shove with KT- or QQ or something here.

[bigspenda73]

1. When villain shows up at the top of his range here, is it just a cooler and we move on?

that'd be the definition of a cooler, in that case just make sure you played the hand in a way to gain maximum value out of the rest of his range.

[mcatdog]

I don't know why you think all options on the flop are reasonable, it's between calling, or raising and calling a shove / shoving any turn if he calls.

Are you shoving an Ace turn?

Yes. It'd be an unfortunate card, but I'm not folding given how huge the pot is already, and I think your money goes in better if you shove than if you check/call.

This is obviously a cooler if you're beat, he has worse kings or QT way more often than AK, KJ or a set.

[baudib]

OK thanks for the replies. I felt like a moron for stacking off here.