$6.50 TPNK makes trips on river

[gingerwizard]

SHould I bet the river or check to induce?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6.00+$0.50 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 (t1590)
MP3 (t1480)
CO (t1470)
Button (t1640)
SB (t1400)
Hero (BB) (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1420)
MP1 (t1500)

Hero's M: 50.00

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, J
5 folds, CO calls t20, 2 folds, Hero checks

Flop: (t50) J, 5, 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: (t50) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets t30, CO raises to t60, Hero calls t30

River: (t170) J (2 players)
Hero bets t120, 1 fold

[Bad Beaten]

Why did you check the flop? I think you bet too little on the turn, but your min-raise call was fine and your river bet was a standard value bet,

[gingerwizard]

I think c/c and c/r are better lines on flop than leading.

I used to always lead in this spot. It turned out to be a leak, so I got some advice on it.

[Bad Beaten]

Why is that, out of curiosity?

[gingerwizard]

because limpers often bet their whole range when checked to by the BB. So I fold a lot of hands I'm beating. Also if I get called, as often happens, I'll have to check and may get pushed off. c/c is my usual line because I keep the pot small.

[taipan168]

I lead the flop for 40. I want to charge any draws rather than give a free card, and I think leading allows us to get away from this hand more cheaply than check/calling if we're beat.

On the river, in a vacuum I almost always lead to give opp a chance to call with a weaker hand, but in this instance given the action on the turn, I think checking with the intention of check/raising is probably the better move.

[drmcboy]

what can he have to call a CR with?

I do agree with betting the flop and I would not "give up" if called unless the draws get there. I also hate the idea you have a standard line here - don't 'always' do anything - stacks, texture, opps, etc should all change your line. J22, for example, is a much better c/c board.

Here I think you will almost always get raised by better (maybe Jcxc cold calls) and almost never by worse so the hand should be easy to play from there.

[taipan168]

what can he have to call a CR with?

If you're talking about the river, I don't necessarily think it's about getting him to call the C-R but giving opp a chance to bluff off some more chips on the river. If we lead, I think most of the hands we beat will fold (with the possible exception of pocket pairs 66 and 88-TT) whilst if we check they might well bluff considering the turn action.

[drmcboy]

that's fine but check raising is very bad.

[taipan168]

You mean check-raising the flop?

[drmcboy]

no, on the river

I think checking with the intention of check/raising is probably the better move.

[taipan168]

If you agree that most hands we beat will fold to a bet, why is check-raising the river bad? Are you worried about losing value if opp checks behind?

[TLR]

because limpers often bet their whole range when checked to by the BB. So I fold a lot of hands I'm beating. Also if I get called, as often happens, I'll have to check and may get pushed off. c/c is my usual line because I keep the pot small.

You are ignoring the texture of the board, you probably have the best hand right now, but there are 2 clubs, straight draw and 3 overcards that the opponent can hit. Bet the flop, best result for you is that he folds or calls with a draw, if he calls and you get a safe card bet again.

On the river, in a vacuum I almost always lead to give opp a chance to call with a weaker hand, but in this instance given the action on the turn, I think checking with the intention of check/raising is probably the better move

that's fine but check raising is very bad.

I am with drmcboy here, I can make a case for leading the flop and I can make case for c-c the flop, however I think c-r will rarely get called by a worse hands

[flomo]

as played
bet the river

[taipan168]

I am with drmcboy here, I can make a case for leading the flop and I can make case for c-c the flop, however I think c-r will rarely get called by a worse hands

As I wrote above, mostly I would bet the flop, but if we agree that if we bet then most hands we beat will fold, why shouldn't we give them a chance to bluff at the river?

Or are we worried about check-raising then getting shoved over and having to fold?

[TLR]

I am with drmcboy here, I can make a case for leading the flop and I can make case for c-c the flop, however I think c-r will rarely get called by a worse hands

As I wrote above, mostly I would bet the flop, but if we agree that if we bet then most hands we beat will fold, why shouldn't we give them a chance to bluff at the river?

Or are we worried about check-raising then getting shoved over and having to fold?

I dont see a problem with check-calling, I see a problem with check-raising

[drmcboy]

If you agree that most hands we beat will fold to a bet, why is check-raising the river bad? Are you worried about losing value if opp checks behind?

again, what can he have to call a river CR? AA? he might even fold that and I think we can assume he has an over pair almost never. c/c is fine if you think he'll bluff but a CR just turns a small cooler into a big one when he has a better jack or is full.

I would bet river because I think usually he'll call with any pair and after his lame min raise on the turn even if he does bluff it may not be very many chips. but either is fine, a CR is just playing your hand and ignoring his.

[taipan168]

OK, I see your point, leading would be my default option, I just thought the weird turn action might change things, but obviously not.

[gingerwizard]

If we CR the river only hands that beat us call surely?

I see the point about the board texture in this one maybe calling for a flop lead.