Call on the bubble? ($5.20)

[Nakamura]

Double or nothing. Do you call on the bubble here (BB is forced to call)?

Hand 1
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Blinds : 300/600 - Ante 60.0
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6 players
[SB] Shifty12888 (1075)
[BB] nyborg trold (9585)
[1] 37Skeeter (1290)
[2] Yaguarete2 (2025)
[3] Cdated (380)
[But] Hero (645)

eNakamura 4 Q Initial Pot: 1260

37Skeeter folds
Yaguarete2 folds
Cdated is All in
Hero ??

Similar spot. Do you call?

Hand 2
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.20 Tournament, 300/600 Blinds 60 Ante (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB (t1270)
UTG (t3163)
MP (t5555)
CO (t4580)
Hero (Button) (t232)
SB (t200)

Hero's M: 0.18

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, 2
3 folds[/color], Hero ??

[taipan168]

I don't play DON games but I would instafold both I think.

[JR9477]

I'd fold both as well

#1 BB is gonna call this one. If it doesn't end here, you have enough chips and a few hands to make a stand and improve your standing. If you double up then the pressure is going to shift to the player currently UTG.

#2 I think SB will likely push now, he has a lot to gain by doing so,
If you push at this point, do you have to beat both hands if they both call?

[flomo]

6 players instafold

7+ players gambool

[gingerwizard]

Think the question is more intelligent than this. He's saying that given the shortie is AI, the BB is definitely in (because his blind is more than the shove), should he call and make the shortie beat 2 hands.

If the shortie can't beat both hands then because hero has more chips he survives the bubble and wins. So with 6 left it would be the perfect time to pulll this. With 7, you have to beat both hands not to go out.

I'm just not sure when it comes to DONs but I can see these being calls, particularly with antes so high.

[Nakamura]

Think the question is more intelligent than this. He's saying that given the shortie is AI, the BB is definitely in (because his blind is more than the shove), should he call and make the shortie beat 2 hands.

If the shortie can't beat both hands then because hero has more chips he survives the bubble and wins. So with 6 left it would be the perfect time to pulll this. With 7, you have to beat both hands not to go out.

I'm just not sure when it comes to DONs but I can see these being calls, particularly with antes so high.

Aye, I think the problem with folding here is if shortie doubles up we will so few chips left we would be very unlikely to place. When I thought about it at the time I reasoned shortie was unlikely to be above 50% against 2 hands. Given that the chance the BB or I win >50% of the time, this makes it +EV, right?

[Nakamura]

I'd fold both as well

#1 BB is gonna call this one. If it doesn't end here, you have enough chips and a few hands to make a stand and improve your standing. If you double up then the pressure is going to shift to the player currently UTG.

#2 I think SB will likely push now, he has a lot to gain by doing so,
If you push at this point, do you have to beat both hands if they both call?

1 - The antes will crush us at 60 chips a pop, plus we have to put the blind before anyone else is forced to play. The argument of the BB calling doesn't apply since he has to call (it's 300/600 blinds). I think once I go AI the SB should also call here. There would have to be a very strange result for him to bubble out, but folks don't always get the idea of implicit collusion. There may be argument for folding if we consider that even if the shortie wins he may be AI again before us. I can't quite work out the maths.

2 - Small blind has already put in all his chips for the blind. Since I have more chips than the small blind, only the BB or I have to win the pot. I will finish ahead of the SB if the SB has a better hand than me but the BB has an even better hand (since there is no side pot for the SB to win).

[JR9477]

1. You're right, I didn't consider the implicit collusion in #1.

2. My answer came from the thinking that if you both shove you would have to be the one to beat two hands. You only having put in 232, while he would have put in 500(including SB).

[Nakamura]

You only having put in 232, while he would have put in 500(including SB).

Just to clarify, SB has 200 chips before posting the blinds, so I have him covered if I go AI.

[JR9477]

I'll pay attention to that in the future...

[drmcboy]

lol @ DONs

[Rage2100]

I think I would call both hands.

Hand 1: 4sQd - This is tough. If you call, SB may or may not call. You and Cdated will be all-in, and so Cdated has to beat both you and the BB to remain in the tournament. If he does though, you are out.
I think if you fold, SB is likely to fold too. This gives a greater chance for Cdated to win the hand. If he does, he will have 640 + SB + antes = 1300 chips.

Hand 2: Jc2d - I think you have to call this one. If you fold and SB doubles up, you will be all-in before the BB even gets to you again. Also, any hand you push with after this is getting called by half the table.