Pocket Kings Early [10+1 30K GTD]

[Jack Sawyer]

I'm having problems with KK early.

What's your play here and why?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10+$1 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com



BB (t3050)
UTG (t3010)
Jizzy Sawya (UTG+1) (t3000)
MP1 (t2980)
MP2 (t3000)
MP3 (t3070)
CO (t2970)
Button (t2940)
SB (t2980)

Jizzy Sawya's M: 100.00



Preflop: Jizzy Sawya is UTG+1 with ,
1 fold, Jizzy Sawya raises to t60, 1 fold, MP2 calls t60, 2 folds, Button raises to t320, 2 folds, Jizzy Sawya calls t260, 1 fold

Flop: (t730) , , (2 players)
Jizzy Sawya checks, Button bets t100, Jizzy Sawya calls t100

Turn: (t930) (2 players)
Jizzy Sawya checks, Button checks

River: (t930) (2 players)
Jizzy Sawya checks, Button bets t800, Jizzy Sawya calls t800

Total pot: t2530

[fjuanl]

4bet preflop to 925 and get it in. people cant fold JJ/QQ/AK and its very likely villain has one of those hands. i think this was played way too passively

[baudib]

ya, easy shove preflop.

[mcatdog]

If villain has a clue how to play poker then I like how you played it, decent players won't be getting all-in for this many blinds with worse hands. People are really bad though so I'd just get all-in preflop.

[dev]

Honestly, I think I bet, raise or checkraise on every single street. I don't see how we're ever getting away from kings with these stacks on this board and there's lots of stuff the average tourney donk will pay you off with.

[mcatdog]

Honestly, I think I bet, raise or checkraise on every single street. I don't see how we're ever getting away from kings with these stacks on this board and there's lots of stuff the average tourney donk will pay you off with.

Of course we're not "getting away" from them, that doesn't mean raising is the best play. There's a call button in between the fold button and the raise button. At 10/20 with 3K chips, you raise from early position with KK, getting all-in preflop against a competent player is not good. I know people will disagree, but I'm pretty convinced it's correct.

Edit: I looked at the hand again and I didn't notice he bet 100 into a 730 pot on the flop, obviously you should raise that stupid little bet, but if he bet more normal sized then check-call is probably best.

[Jack Sawyer]

Edit: I looked at the hand again and I didn't notice he bet 100 into a 730 pot on the flop, obviously you should raise that stupid little bet, but if he bet more normal sized then check-call is probably best.

That bet was what spooked me.

My reasoning: Its lowstakes, that pf RR is AJ+, TT+ a lot. These guys play their hands and as consequence very rarely bluff. I also assume competency unless he proves to be a donk.
But most of the time, a missed AK bets big to take it down here. Value is usually in half pot to two thirds pot range. Yet villain decided to do the oddest minbet ever after showing lots of strength pre. This now is either a very strong tarp or a very weak lead.

I then choose the safe route: I check let him bluff if he's weak, I check minimizing my possible losses here if he's strong since its pretty early too, like 2nd hand. I'm not scared of too many turn or river cards.

Is my reasoning flawed?

[drmcboy]

it's flawed because even though he did throw another big bet in there you had no way of knowing that and you can't make much picking off 1/7 PS bluffs. this is especially true OOP

I generally raise 5x with big pairs early on in super donkaments such as these. No need for deception, if you want to raise 3x the next hand with 98s go right ahead.

[fjuanl]

jack when i first took at glance at this i thought you might have posted this because you ran into JJ...but I think the villains turn check is almost never strength. if villain is betting the flop with a boat, theres no explanation for a turn check when the 9d is a blank.

also..even though its not a huge deal, im with drmcboy on 5xing, especially when your 150bbs deep

[mcatdog]

That bet was what spooked me.

Sounds like you're getting owned if all villain has to do is bet 1/7 of the pot to "spook" you when you have KK. That bet can be anything, a really strong hand, nothing, or something in between. I'd be a lot more spooked if he made a bet that showed he really liked his hand.

Also, "playing it safe" when you have KK is a huge mistake because in the long run you'll run into someone else's KK just as often as you get dealt KK yourself. If your opponents play their KK aggressively and get max value, but you go into cheap showdown mode and just win small pots with KK then you will be a losing player. You're trying to maximize your expectation, not maximize your chances of still being in the tournament after this hand.

[Jack Sawyer]

Tnx for the advice all.

@mcatdog: the spooking part was a situational read. It made no sense whatsoever, unless villain wanted me to bet big since I showed strength pre, like if he had AQ or AK that missed etc.

Sure enough, the minbet was some suck in bet. He had JJ. I'm still not sure how to play this properly, since a decently sized 4-bet would be 1K in chips (a full third of my chipstack, what to do when if A flops etc) , and a 4-bet overbet shove is too much.

So next time, just 4-bet 1k and call any shoves despite it being relatively early? Or simply bring out the hammer?

Also, "playing it safe" when you have KK is a huge mistake because in the long run you'll run into someone else's KK just as often as you get dealt KK yourself. If your opponents play their KK aggressively and get max value, but you go into cheap showdown mode and just win small pots with KK then you will be a losing player. You're trying to maximize your expectation, not maximize your chances of still being in the tournament after this hand.

I guess the way I play has a lot of resemblance to "smallball", but do KK and AA throw the smallball approach out the window?

[sk8r_daniel]

Even if you had just called preflop I would check raise his stupid little flop bet to like 450 or something. He probably has AK or a worse pair and missed and is trying to take down the pot as cheaply as possible. If he has aces...oh well tough luck. If he has a jack I say screw it too.

Early on in the 30k guaranteed I usually assume players are not competent. If the player was competent and you 4bet him oop he could fold a strong hand like JJ or QQ and you lose alot of value. But you are just calling preflop to try and trap a competent player. He will likely cbet large and you can gain an extra bet this way or maybe stack him off if he has a worse overpair than your kings.

I'm not sure why you are scared of his little bets. I realize there are good times to slowplay big pairs on dry boards but if the opponent shows a reluctance to commit any chips to the pot, or any large amount of chips to the pot you should atleast bet the turn or river for value.

my 2 cents.

[overtop69]

With a flop such as that I think you HAD to raise just to see where you stand in the hand. Had you raised and they reraised you most likely would have folded. However, should you get that far you definitely needed to bet on the turn just because of the draw possibilities. Believe it or not most people get rivered because they let themselves get rivered....this is a key example of where you might get rivered. Raise the flop at least 3x....bet the turn hard because of the draw.....and most likely you won't get to a showdown. In this particular case, you got unlucky in being outflopped and your opponent played you perfectly and got as much of your money as possible. Just my opinion....good luck on and off the felts.

[mcatdog]

With a flop such as that I think you HAD to raise just to see where you stand in the hand. Had you raised and they reraised you most likely would have folded.

It'd be a nice bluff, Jack just would have been unlucky that villain happened to have QQ that time.