low stakes 180man SnGs

[frreshprince]

Ive been trying to specialize in 4.40 and 11 dollar 180 man SnGs on pokerstars.com and ive recently had some sucess with these tactics so i figured i'd share them while they're still fresh.

these tournies are fairly simple, and if you're just getting started i think its a great place to start your game.

Well the first thing you should do, at any new tournament is learn how to pace your play. An easy way to do this is to multiply the number of people in the tournament and the number of chips you start with. then divide by the number of places that get paid. so..
180x1500/18 = 15,000$
that is going to be the average stack of chips for the people who will make the money. but don't worry you generally have around 2.5 hours to reach that point.

You start the tournaments with 1500 chips and 10/20 blinds. For the first hour of play, stick to your prime hands to raise, and always consider your position at the table. So AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AKs,AKo,AQs,AQo are generally the only hands you'll see me play. And when i play these hands i raise above average 3xBB. I usually make it 4-5x BB because at these stakes (especially early on) you'll get the bad players to call you with KJo and such, thinking that its a good hand.

I will also occasionally limp with a PP if my position is good, and i have a comfortable amount of chips. I feel that this can really pay off if you hit that set (which is generally 1/8) so you dont really have great odds, but if you can get in there for cheap and connect its going to make the rest of your tournament alot easier.

After the first hour theres a break, if you haven't made it this far, you really haven't been playing near tight enough, or you have taken an extremely bad bad. But if you're still left (which you should be) don't pay attention to the big stack of the tournament that guy just got extremely lucky and its probably his birthday or somthing. But as long as you still have chips and a chair you're fine for now.

In almost every tournament theres right around 90 people left at this point so you've reached the midway point congrats. If playing tight has worked out as well as we have hoped, keep it up. I generally find myself around 2500 chips here with only playing no more than 5 hands out of 70. each time raising 5x the BB and when theres limpers before me even more.

Playing tight, and sticking to your game should really last you until the final 40 players or so, If you haven't developed a stack yet by playing like this, you're probably going to have to make some moves. I personally dont like to push all my chips in unless i only have 5BBs left or so. So if you find yourself with 10BBs or less be prepared to shove that stack until you double up.

Once you hit the final 25 people, you'll tend to notice alot of players tighten up, you'll see alot of the bigger stacks just sitting around to hit the money, and if you happen to see them in a pot, watch out because they're usually packing some big cards. Other than that most people are sitting there watching the lobby and praying to just make the money. But if you think about it what are you going to do with 8$? or 20$? (if you're in the 11$ SnG) you could play another SnG and try to get back to this spot. OR I like to play for the WIN. So this is the point in the tournament when people tighten up to make the money, and i turn up the heat a little bit. Forcing people to decide if they want to risk there tournament life constantly with All-ins. (probably like 3 raises every 10 hands) just to steal those blinds and antes.
*dont steal the blinds ever unless the antes are there, ITS NOT WORTH IT*

After everyones done grinding and you're in the final 18, you should around average stack, hopefully more because you were bullying kids around, but now is a good time to relax a little. In 15 minutes or so you'll see 5 kids drop out because they were just glad to make the money.

And now were back to everyone being tight, and hoping to make the final table, I wouldn't get to aggressive here but the same thing as before (3raises per 10 hands). And you dont HAVE to raise 3 times just make the hands that you wouldnt normally play, playable like KQo, A9o, use those hands to apply pressure on smaller stacks. I dont usually like to get into races against big stacks unless im holding monsters too, so its important to know who you're raising, and how the other players are looking at you. DONT be raising UTG or anything crazy like that unless you have good cards. I'm talking about position raises from the button or -1 with better than average hands.

Once you hit the final table you can wait 15minutes again and watch 2-4 people drop off the map increases your $$ totals again. but now its getting time to really play, when i get down to the final 5 unless i have a huge chip lead i like to bring the heat again. I'd rather get a lucky a few times with average cards while stealing blinds, then just sit there and get blinded out. the odds on you catching monsters like AA are like 1/200, and even then you could still get sucked out on. so its either squash or be squashed.
worst comes to worst you're to aggressive and run into somone with a great hand and you place 4th or somthing for 40$! or 80$! (for the 11$ SnG)

idk thats just my strategy on SnGs, and ive found it to be sucessful. Let me know if it helps you guys, or if you have any suggestions on my strategy that could even help improve my game! THX

DaCollegeKid

[Kijjo]

good general advice bud.
not to be negative, but it sounds like either you have been getting better than average starting cards or your not honest with yourself as to the level of your tightness/looseness.

here's what I mean:

So this is the point in the tournament when people tighten up to make the money, and i turn up the heat a little bit. Forcing people to decide if they want to risk there tournament life constantly with All-ins. (probably like 3 raises every 10 hands)

playable like KQo, A9o

I'm talking about position raises from the button or -1 with better than average hands.

Ok, so I know this is cutting and pasting, but I'm not taking stuff out of context. I know at this point you're saying to open up your starting hand range a bit to hands like KQo and A9o, and I'm not disagreeing with you on this.
What I do want to say is, do you really get 3 hands out of 10 like this or better, in position on a somewhat steady basis? Your earlier section you list the premium hands. I will testify that I've played many tournaments where I don't see 1 of those in the first hour, NOT ONE. And while it's right to try to punish the tighties late in the game, how do you do that when every second hand you get is 83o?
I think the principles you're planning on using are sound, but the cards will not always cooperate. So the challenge is, can you do this when the cards aren't running hot? Or when every time you pick up a marginal/decent hand, it's not in position, but from UTG.

[drmcboy]

{Moved from STTs}

Anything over 2 tables goes in here.

What I do want to say is, do you really get 3 hands out of 10 like this or better, in position on a somewhat steady basis?

FWIW here is the top 30%

55+,A2s+,K5s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,A7o+,A5o,K9o+,Q9o +,J9o+,T9o

[Kijjo]

then consider getting them in position rather than oop.

[drmcboy]

You get the top 30% 30% of the time, it doesn't matter where you are sitting.

[frreshprince]

Yeah i hear you, ummm, im just trying not to give off the wrong impression to other players.

What it is, is i like to play only prime hands and let the field grind down, so it generally makes it hard for me to collect a ton of chips, but atleast the hands that im playing im winning like 80% of the time either at showdown or by just taking the pot.

But to be more realistic and honest to the readers Um well, it really depends on how the table is percieving me. If i know i havent raised in 10 hands and i get dealt 78s on the button, and theres no raisers left and its late in a tourney with 200/400 blinds with an ante, and sitting over here with 3k in chips I mean Im pushing with hands like that to just steal those blinds and antes. And same thing with like Ax in that spot or PPs.

So idk i enjoy playing tight until the last second, then even when i get my chips in I generally like to feel like I have a good hand if somone calls, I just dont want people putting all there chips in, in a early position on the table with hands like 78s, because i just dont think thats a good play really ever.

Plus it all depends on my stack size how loose/aggressive I tend to be. I mean if average stack is 12k or so with 25 people left. theres usually like 15 people with less than that, and 10 people with more. and if im the guy sitting on 12k, I dont like to just sit there (in 10th) and make the money, So Ill make alot of position raises and if i get like K10o like early or UTG i really hate to play it.

I think overall i was just trying to give a better impression to the reader, and when to be aggressive and how to do it.
YES I want to raise 3/10 pots or be thinking of stealing alot.
NO I probably wont only get prime hands to do it.
SOMETIMES you have to think of how the tabe thinks of you and use that to your advantage and maybe push with a Ax if you havent played a hand for a while.

But thats a very good stat :
You get the top 30% 30% of the time, it doesn't matter where you are sitting.


I will have to keep that in mind.

Thx for your comments

[Kijjo]

True that.
drmcboy - i think you get what i'm saying, but just to put it another way, 70% of the time that you're playing in position you won't have a top 30% hand.

[hopeful]

I enjoy playing the 180 man and they account for the majority of my limited success.
I must disagree with your blinds policy, I find that people play their blinds very poorly and this makes stealing a real opportunity. My favourite blind steal is to min raise, so many people feel obliged to call because like harrington says they have the odds. Then play the flop pretty hard. This will often take down a reasonable pot even when the blinds are small with no ante. This type of move keeps the stack ticking over even when you have no cards.

[shyguy03533]

My 2 cents to this are that i feel like big stacks are the best stacks to double up on. (unless ur a big stack urself) i feel like if ur big, pick on small, and if ur small, shove open to big. The bigger stacks will only assume ur shoving with any 2 and call u down with something like Q4o and the smaller stacks will be to worried to dust off their chips to u if ur big. Your thoughts?

[ArcadianRock]

My 2 cents to this are that i feel like big stacks are the best stacks to double up on. (unless ur a big stack urself) i feel like if ur big, pick on small, and if ur small, shove open to big. The bigger stacks will only assume ur shoving with any 2 and call u down with something like Q4o and the smaller stacks will be to worried to dust off their chips to u if ur big. Your thoughts?

Yeah, it's a double edged sword. It's great when you have a hand to shove into someone deep, but at the same time if you have no fold eq against him, you can't pick up the blinds with A2, so it just becomes a coin flip where you might be a slight favorite.

[vennix]

Nice info I was dumb playing in a 2+.25 1r+1a earlier and holding 10s10c catch a 9d 9h 8d flop and a player checks then i push def no expecting a call. The turn timer goes all the way down and I figured theres only 2 things that call me here a 9 or over cards and of course got called with JJ and got beat o well dumb play by myself but thought I could take that one down.

[frreshprince]

I agree with your small stack attack big stack and big stack attack small stack theorys. Big stacks tend to play over aggressive (the same reason that they're big stack now) so if you plan on attacking them I hope you're holding 88+ AKs, AKo, AQs, AQo, other wise i wouldnt play super aggressive into them!

oh and hopeful, i will def. take that into consideration, because frankly the cards arent always going to be there so maybe a min raise with KJ KQ somthing like that to make the blinds feel obligated to call then follow it up hard or hopefully catch a peice and bet it out. thanks for the advice bro