What are most doing in this spot?

[TigerMike]

Ok imo this is the only thing i think should have done differently. Let me know what you think and your reasoning behind it. This is a 12 buck 45 turbo on stars. The thing I think could have been done differently is to raise about 100-150 more preflop. Postflop..I personally don't think there is any other play than to shove. You can check fold which would be bad, or u can check call which i think would be worse. Please let me know what you think.

PokerStars Game #25545982868: Tournament #144997767, $11+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2009/03/02 23:40:44 ET
Table '144997767 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: darkeyes79 (2060 in chips)
Seat 2: AZLADD (1540 in chips)
Seat 3: 0VER_under (1440 in chips)
Seat 4: TeamTitleist (1400 in chips)
Seat 5: pickyp (1000 in chips)
Seat 6: ozwho (1470 in chips)
Seat 7: fredmojones (920 in chips)
Seat 8: B_Movie_Fan (1460 in chips)
Seat 9: ironsteve (2210 in chips)
0VER_under: posts small blind 15
TeamTitleist: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 0VER_under [Qc Qs]
pickyp: calls 30
ozwho: folds
fredmojones: calls 30
B_Movie_Fan: folds
ironsteve: folds
darkeyes79: calls 30
AZLADD: calls 30
0VER_under: raises 200 to 230
TeamTitleist: folds
pickyp: calls 200
fredmojones: folds
darkeyes79: calls 200
AZLADD: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [Th 6h 6d]
0VER_under: bets 1210 and is all-in

{Results removed by DrMcBoy}

[eragotte]

more than 7bbs pre seems unnecessary, just luck of the draw sometimes. You could bet pot or 2/3 pot on the flop but I doubt you're folding to a raise anyway.. Either way lots of JJ even 99-77 and A10 will shove there... just tough luck

[TigerMike]

more than 7bbs pre seems unnecessary, just luck of the draw sometimes. You could bet pot or 2/3 pot on the flop but I doubt you're folding to a raise anyway.. Either way lots of JJ even 99-77 and A10 will shove there... just tough luck

I had 4 ppl call preflop, u really think 7bb's preflop was unnecessary? I think the wrong move was not raising about 100-150 more prefop.

[drmcboy]

hand is fine and 3x+1bb per limper is a decent guideline. I edited the results.

If you think 1-2 players will call 100 to 150 more it's OK, but don't raise 100 hoping people fold bad hands. You want to get them to call with bad hands. Sometimes they will win, which is what keeps them calling with bad hands.

[TigerMike]

hand is fine and 3x+1bb per limper is a decent guideline. I edited the results.

If you think 1-2 players will call 100 to 150 more it's OK, but don't raise 100 hoping people fold bad hands. You want to get them to call with bad hands. Sometimes they will win, which is what keeps them calling with bad hands.

I could really care less about the guy hitting the 6 and losing the hand as i am with the other 4 ppl that came in the pot after my raise. That's kinda where I think I went wrong in the hand. You said if I think 1 or 2 more players would call 100-150 more then it's ok. I disagree with that simply b/c my reasoning for wanting to raise that amount more pre was to thin the field a little. Others i have talked to about the hand said that I would be losing too much value by raising more pre and some even disagreed with my initial raise. The reason I wanted to raise more was to thin the field. I don't care what kind of hand you have whether it be AA, KK, QQ etc....the more people u have in, the more chance u have of losing the hand. Do u not agree? I mean I never want to play about 5 handed with any premium post flop if I can help it.

[fjuanl]

you are thinking too much about this hand. you played it fine and should be really happy about getting the rest in on the flop. you clearly didnt misplay this, so find hands where you think you might have

[Sprayed]

cooler/variance, hand is fine.

[drmcboy]

You said if I think 1 or 2 more players would call 100-150 more then it's ok.

no, I didn't. If you think you can raise more and still get 1 or 2 calls (total) it's fine.

the more people u have in, the more chance u have of losing the hand.
Do u not agree? I mean I never want to play about 5 handed with any premium post flop if I can help it.

Yes, each hand in the pot has a chance to win. Each hand also has a chance of someone making a second best hand and winning a larger pot.


You choose to raise this hand rather than open shove. Why?

[TigerMike]

You choose to raise this hand rather than open shove. Why?[/quote]

Well in hindsight wish I would have just open shoved. I didn't simply b/c I did want action in the hand, just not 4 players. That's the whole reason I was thinking that maybe 100-150 more would have thin the field.

[TigerMike]

you are thinking too much about this hand. you played it fine and should be really happy about getting the rest in on the flop. you clearly didnt misplay this, so find hands where you think you might have

I never post hands where I think I played them right. I understand that it's pretty much a cooler, was just simply wondering if anyone else raises a little more preflop or just open shoves pre.

[drmcboy]

Do this - put these 4 guys on ranges and figure out what your equity is against them pre flop.

Then figure out your equity vs 2 in a larger pot.

Then compare to open shoving and getting no calls.

You can even throw in a chance you get called on the open shove.

Your instinct that you want action is correct, but now you are doubting it. No hand has 0% equity vs yours pre flop. If you do not allow people to make mistakes you cannot win their money.

[gn2056]

I dont know, I would pretty bummed when four people come with me to the flop, honestly that early in a tourney how could you know you have to over bet to fold people, I think your raise was more then enough. Perhaps, raising less preflop 3x is actually better because it would be easier for you to get rid of em. If I see a flop with three other people with a pair especially on stars im not feeling good unless I flop a set. So, yeah I guess I suggest betting less preflop like 3x so you dont get so committed. I mean if your going to reraise all in there I think your only getting called if your crushed.

[gn2056]

open shoving is lame. I would rather fold my big hands post flop, and get value rather then give someone five cards to screw me over. HAving to call crap preflop with aces and then having people push on me is why I lose, ideally they dont get to see all five cards limiting the likelihood of beating your hand, and also giving you chance to get away from a monster flop. Its just queens your tourney shouldnt depend on that hand.