KK against LAGGtard, flush gets there on the river ($27)

[taipan168]

Opp is a real LAGGtard, stats something like 62/40/2.5 over about 110 hands. What's your river move?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $25+$2 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t1435)
UTG+1 (t1490)
Hero (MP1) (t1500)
MP2 (t2390)
MP3 (t2865)
CO (t1240)
Button (t80)
SB (t1400)
BB (t1100)

Hero's M: 50.00

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, K
2 folds, Hero bets t80, 1 fold, MP3 calls t80, 1 fold, Button calls t80 (All-In), 2 folds

Flop: (t270) 4, 2, 3 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets t200, MP3 calls t200

Turn: (t670) 2 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets t400, MP3 calls t400

River: (t1470) 7 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero ????

[Da GOAT]

Shove.we have best hand slot

[darys]

check

[rong]

If he has the 3, str8 or flush, he will put all his chips in no matter what you do, so the question comes down to whether or not you will be happy to be all in with KK here. I probably would.

If you decide you would, then I think the best move is a raise of approx 450.

My reasoning, if you have him beat & he folds you get the chips in the pot or he calls and you get a few extr. If he has you beat he goes all in regardless, so you call and lose, if you have him beat, he may try an all in steal, in which case you call and get all his chips.

Alternative moves and reasons why:

If you check, he either checks or pushes (as you have said he is lagg), and if he checks, you have him beat and could possibly have got more chips via method above, and if he pushes, your all in anyway.

If you push, he only calls if he has you beat, so you may as well try the smaller bet and hope for a push in order to gain the extra chips.

[gingerwizard]

check call. He surely bets his whole range into you, and folds the missed str8 draws to your shove

[Da GOAT]

Check calling is v bad. Either shove 1k more or c/f. Why do u have to be scared of flushes always.oop can easily have an overpaid too.

I shove. C/c is so bad IMO since pol don't vb thin

[drmcboy]

I would also just shove, I would expect someone with those stats to raise a flush draw before now, I'm more worried he has 2s full. see goat's posts for reasons why, assuming you read irelandish

[Da GOAT]

Ha I'm using my itouch to post.I've fat fingers I guess.also wanna add not all flushes call a turn bet

[GatorJH]

Ha I'm using my itouch to post.

balla posting imo

[kmind]

Yeah I'd rather shove for sure than c/c and I'd rather c/f than c/c for the reasons mentioned by the greatest of all time.

[rong]

Can someone explain to me why a push is better than a smaller raise here with hopes of reraise bluff? Baring in mind opposition is a LAGG.

[TLR]

Can someone explain to me why a push is better than a smaller raise here with hopes of reraise bluff? Baring in mind opposition is a LAGG.

Hero's remaining stack represents about 60% of the pot, no reason to bet anything less

[Da GOAT]

Yeah I'd rather shove for sure than c/c and I'd rather c/f than c/c for the reasons mentioned by the greatest of all time.

Haha awh

[ArcadianRock]

The problem here I think is that there are too many big hands he could have. He could just have the A, but if you're so pot committed already are you just going to fold if he does shove in? If he's loose agg (not in this instance, just a caller) than he probably was just drawing out. If he had a made hand he would have Reraised probably.

[frreshprince]

check/call all day

[gingerwizard]

check/call all day

read thread

[Da GOAT]

check/call all day

[caddie444]

Alright, trying to understand this. My default play in this spot has been to c/c.

I initially agreed with what Ginger said in his first post. I mean personally I think the most likely hand villain shows up with here is A-x, so I thought that he would basically be shoving his whole range as well.

Is shoving better because there is more value in it? I honestly don't think villain shows up with an overpair here too often. Since I don't see how we can get any better hands to fold our shove must be for value... I guess thats what I am struggling with.

[drmcboy]

well, if he shoves 100% of his range we would c/c or c/f depending on how many bluffs you think are in there. I just don't understand where the idea comes from he'll shove 100%. He's very aggressive pre flop so we assume his normal line after that is call/call/bluff shove? You will just not see very many people play this way.

If he didn't have a flush draw he probably has a hand like Ax or 4x or 3x where he had a pair and straight draw on the flop. He also could have two pair - 47, 57 etc. If he checks these hands behind us then c/c is a bad line because he saves money with all the hands we want him to have and we still pay him off when we are beat.

If he would fold these hands to a shove but will check behind with them we still don't lose anything if we shove because he is always shoving any hand that beats us.

[bjsaust]

check/call all day

I'm really tired of people posting 1 line answers with no justifications at all. Shit like this adds nothing to a thread and helps noone.

[GatorJH]

check/call all day

I'm really tired of people posting 1 line answers with no justifications at all. Shit like this adds nothing to a thread and helps noone.

yea, what he said.

[gingerwizard]

Apart from hands that beat us, what calls a shove?

Do any hands that beat us fold to a shove?

I'm finding this one quite hard.

Overpairs are there, but given OPs read surely he is raising at some point post flop?
3x,4x, A7, etc with a busted straight draw surely won't call a river shove now?

2x, flush, or a boat are calling a shove all day.

If we check I agree those hands we beat probably check behind, so perhaps check/fold is better?

Our line screams overpair. Surely he only calls a river shove with something that beats that.

Why is shove better than c/f?

[Nakamura]

c/f has to be bad? Surely such an aggressive player is betting the river if he has any kind hand?

[gingerwizard]

*Bump*

Would quite like to hear more on this

[rong]

I still stand by small raise and call a shove.

reasons:

option 1. c/f. I don't like this as he's aggressive and may well sense weekness and steel with a worse hand, and if he checks I just take current pot.

option 2. Push. I win current pot if I'm ahead and lose my whole stack if I'm behind.

Option 3. c/c. I don't see the point in this, if I'm prepared to call I may as well bet.

Option 4. small bet and call a push. I like this best. If he's ahead I lose my stack, same as c/c or push. If I'm ahead, I either take the pot now or he calls or pushes with the weeker hand and I win a bigger pot.

I's either c/f or small bet for me. The small bet beats the push or c/c as increased potential of winning larger pot if I'm ahead. And against a LAGG I don't want to put this hand down.

[Nakamura]

Option 3. c/c. I don't see the point in this, if I'm prepared to call I may as well bet.

Against LAGGY players this often induces a bluff from hands we beat.

[rong]

Option 3. c/c. I don't see the point in this, if I'm prepared to call I may as well bet.

Against LAGGY players this often induces a bluff from hands we beat.

Agreed, but so would a small bet, say 350. And it may get a call from a worse hand. So I feel this offers a greater expected return.

[rong]

Option 3. c/c. I don't see the point in this, if I'm prepared to call I may as well bet.

Against LAGGY players this often induces a bluff from hands we beat.

Agreed, but so would a small bet, say 350. And it may get a call from a worse hand. So I feel this offers a greater expected return.

Also, villains remaining stack is 2185, if he is thinking c/f as this point, a small raise is callable with that stack size, where as the remaining 1000(approx) stack is a much bigger call to make without a hand that beats us.

[kstarm]

call or raise

Call what? Hero is first to act. It would be much more helpful if you would add some reasoning rather then posting on every thread with 1 or 2 word answers.

[rong]

i think he wants a str8 under his name