Post Flop - Raise or check behind?

[tuuk2]

Last three of a 10-man SNG Turbo, $3.40. I'm the chip leader, but honestly, other than AA once early on which I was able to double up with, I've gotten no premium hands (nothing higher than A-7 OOP). Up to this point, I've played well and mostly played hands in position. As a matter of fact, I got the chip lead through the button when he called my A-5 all-in with 3-3. At the time he called, he committed 2/3rds of his chips.

BB is kind of a LAGtard, but has gotten the breaks to still be around. He'll play any two sooooted or any Ace or broadway from my observations. He would raise with any PP.

So the question is, should I have C-bet after the flop once he called my raise pre-flop? After the flop, did I bet out too much? I felt that I had the best hand here, he certainly would have re-raised with A-K pre-flop in my opinion. How would you have played it differently?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $3.00+$0.40 Tournament, 200/400 Blinds 25 Ante (3 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB (t4150)
Hero (Button) (t6690)
SB (t4160)

Hero's M: 9.91

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, Q
Hero bets t1000, 1 fold, BB calls t600

Flop: (t2275) 5, K, 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t2000, BB raises to t3125 (All-In), Hero calls t1125

Turn: (t8525) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t8525) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t8525

EDIT: Sorry for the mix up. I had originally posted that I was in the BB when in fact OP was plus I raised and was called rather than a limp and call from me.

[Primus Sucks]

Don't beat yourself up....this is pretty standard. How much more aggressive pre-flop do you want to be? What are you planning to do if you get pushed on? If you make your pre-flop raise much larger you may as well be pushing as any villian worth their salt is pushing or folding pre-flop.

[Kijjo]

Did you post the right hand to go with your comments? I don't see him limping in? I see you raising 2.5XBB. I think that's fine, but personally I'd just shove if I was going to play this hand.
As the bigstack you have two options, pressure pressure pressure 'em OR let them KO each other. In this situation you'd rather not let them KO each other cause then you're looking at being somewhere around 7k to 8k heads up. If you can punish them for a few rounds and hopefully catch one of them desperate, you'll have a huge chiplead headsup.

[Nakamura]

What is the plan if you miss the flop?

[tuuk2]

Crap! I thought I'd checked this one. Sorry about that. So Pre-Flop, my play was fine. I don't feel so bad now. My pre-flop bet was supposed to take it down. If he called, then I was still in position. He's in the BB not the Button. I just called myself a lagtard! LOL. I'm more the tag to slightly tight passive.

After the flop, if I miss and he bets out, I probably let it go. I'm the chip leader here and there's no reason to get involved without a good hand.

[Nakamura]

After the flop, if I miss and he bets out, I probably let it go. I'm the chip leader here and there's no reason to get involved without a good hand.

OK, you are IP. What are you doing if he checks?

[tuuk2]

Well, personally, I'm going to push hard here. To me, his call, then check means he didn't hit. I think his range is wide, but I haven't seen the check/raise from him that I can recall. I'm just worried that by betting so much, I'm committed myself to calling him if he does c/r.

[Nakamura]

I'm just worried that by betting so much, I'm committed myself to calling him if he does c/r.

The point I'm trying to make is if you raise and he calls and either bets the flop, or c/r the flop, you now have a very difficult decision. Folding 1/3 of your stack at this stage is gross. Edit: To make it clear, I'm referring to when you miss the flop here.

I rather push pre-flop here and put the pressure on him to make a decision.

[taipan168]

Personally I just shove this preflop and be done with it.

As played, I almost always bet that flop rather than checking behind. I probably bet 2/3 pot but that's a small matter. Once he C-R AI, there's no way I'm folding top pair second kicker, we are significantly ahead of his likely range and he does this with a lot of hands that we beat.

[tuuk2]

That's what I thought too. Once he C/R me all-in, I'm putting him on K-J, K-10. It's the only thing that makes sense there. So everyone thinks that I should have just pushed all-in pre-flop with 16x the BB?

[tuuk2]

I'm just worried that by betting so much, I'm committed myself to calling him if he does c/r.

The point I'm trying to make is if you raise and he calls and either bets the flop, or c/r the flop, you now have a very difficult decision. Folding 1/3 of your stack at this stage is gross. Edit: To make it clear, I'm referring to when you miss the flop here.

I rather push pre-flop here and put the pressure on him to make a decision.

So you think that betting a standard 2 1/2 times the big blind was a mistake there? I would think that would be enough to get either one off their hand unless it's really good. I don't see too many people calling here with suited connectors or something stupid like that.

I'm OK with folding off 1/3 my stack if I have to. If I go all-in and he calls and wins, then I'm losing 2/3 my stack. If I fold, I'm still in second with a good shot of winning. However, I'm not folding with top pair and essentially top kicker here since I'm ruling out KK and A-K.

Once he C/R all-in here, what kind of hand do you put him on?

[blackknite123]

standard online poker. my bad dude.

[GatorJH]

So everyone thinks that I should have just pushed all-in pre-flop with 16x the BB?

The thing here is that even though YOU have 16BB's both of them are around 10 so any standard raise that gets called will most likely end up with all of the chips in the middle anyway. By open shoving you are forcing them to play in a manner that takes all post flop options away from them.

[tuuk2]

So everyone thinks that I should have just pushed all-in pre-flop with 16x the BB?

The thing here is that even though YOU have 16BB's both of them are around 10 so any standard raise that gets called will most likely end up with all of the chips in the middle anyway. By open shoving you are forcing them to play in a manner that takes all post flop options away from them.

OK. That makes sense to me. I didn't disagree with everyone saying all-in, but I was wondering why we should do it. So in these situations, it's almost always correct to push if you're planning on raising.

[drmcboy]

shove because:

you have to call a push anyway and you would much rather they fold a hand like Ax or small PP vs come over the top

You are very vulnerable to the stop and go with these stack sizes, even more so because we have K high rather than A high or a pair when we miss.

[taipan168]

shove because:

you have to call a push anyway and you would much rather they fold a hand like Ax or small PP vs come over the top

You are very vulnerable to the stop and go with these stack sizes, even more so because we have K high rather than A high or a pair when we miss.

^^^^ this.

[tuuk2]

I agree with everything you said. However, what are the chances that villain folds any Ace? At this level unless they are a complete nit, they're not folding.

[taipan168]

I agree with everything you said. However, what are the chances that villain folds any Ace? At this level unless they are a complete nit, they're not folding.

Postflop or preflop?

Preflop, the problem with standard raising is that if one of them shoves over you're priced in to call against their shove over range because you're getting 1.77 to 1 pot odds on the call but you've got more equity than that:

equity win tie
Hand 0: 42.785% 40.82% 01.97% { KQo }
Hand 1: 57.215% 55.25% 01.97% { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, A2o+, KTo+ }

Plus, if you shove, what is the chance that they either don't have an ace and therefore fold (meaning you take the 775 chips in blinds an antes) or they call with a hand that you're ahead of (worse Kx and maybe Qx come to mind)?

[tuuk2]

I was thinking pre-flop. I think you're right however, I should have just pushed there. It would have eliminated the problem. However, I still don't think Villlain had the odds to call. I've included the results because I want to know if anyone thinks he was right to CALL my pre-flop raise.

He had K-5o

[baudib]

Shove pre. Although, if you know he's going to call off 15% of his stack preflop OOP with K5o, smaller raise is fine.

[Poker Orifice]

I agree with everything you said. However, what are the chances that villain folds any Ace? At this level unless they are a complete nit, they're not folding.

I really don't think you can consider this "what if they have an Ace"... what are the odds of that? You're shoving and if they're calling they're risking going out... do they have a hand good enough to call you with?.. or would they rather wait and get it in first?
Even if they did call your preflop shove 'with an Ace', you're not even that far behind anyways.
Although it's a bit beyond this point... in SNG's don't you want to be putting the pressure on your opponents, forcing them to a decision instead of getting yourself in tricky spots with tougher decisions? (not referring to this particular hand per say... this doesn't appear to be a tough decision here,.. BUT, as mentioned above, what's your line if you miss the flop?... & if villain leads out?).