$12/180 final table, ATs with 5x BB

[taipan168]

No reads on opp, he hasn't been on any of my tables. My HUD was showing 33/33 but that was only over 6 hands so is probably irrelevant.

Gambool it up here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $11+$1 Tournament, 1500/3000 Blinds 300 Ante (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 (t43699)
Hero (CO) (t15230)
Button (t17544)
SB (t46785)
BB (t20495)
UTG (t50016)
UTG+1 (t56731)
MP1 (t19500)

Hero's M: 2.21

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, A
2 folds, MP1 bets t12000, 1 fold, Hero ????

[baudib]

My gut instinct is to say fold but this is tougher than I thought.

First-in vigorish is really important with these awkward stack sizes and you have a few more hands before you reach the blinds. Obviously you're not in great shape but you will still do serious damage to anyone at the table.

When someone who should be shoving doesn't shove, they often have KK/AA, but this raise isn't exactly inviting action, either. So my guess is he's a bad player with a vulnerable hand and maybe ATs is good enough.

[kstarm]

I would lean towards a fold here without a better read, though I agree it is close.

In my experience these final tables get really loose due to the blinds, with people over-valuing there Ax hands (open rasies from UTG with A6, etc....), and people calling down with the same, thus waiting a few hands can move you up the pay-scale. Depending on how the next hands go your stack is going to be able to put pressure on most people, and especially on the player to your left. I also agree with Baudib that first-in vigorish is extremely important here.

[Taicho]

I think we fold here. Best case scenario he's got a low PP and it's a coinflip, worst case he's got AK/AQ TT+, and since the latter group encompasses far more hands he'd do this with I'd say fold. Then again, the blinds are about to eat a third of our stack and you're going to want to go heads up rather than in a possible multiway pot...gah. Tons of help I am.

[baudib]

I don't think you can discount Ax/Kx from his holdings.

The antes make a big difference here. Even if we're never ahead (villain has 22+, AT+), we're getting the right odds to play.

[drmcboy]

omg MTTai

pay jump is the only problem imo, not worried at all about him not open shoving. If he put 7500 in I would be a little more concerned. Assuming the next few spots pay close and the money is not a big boost to the roll, I gamble

[taipan168]

omg MTTai

Yep, time for a bit of a change. Still playing STTs though (as my other tables) however I have come to the very belated conclusion that although I can grind it out at SNGs the money is in MTTs

pay jump is the only problem imo, not worried at all about him not open shoving. If he put 7500 in I would be a little more concerned. Assuming the next few spots pay close and the money is not a big boost to the roll, I gamble

I think there's a $20 jump to the next place which, although nice to have, isn't too important to my roll

[fjuanl]

Kind of a crappy spot but we only have 5BB's and you never really know what 12/180 donks could show up with here so I'd also gamb0l

good to see your finally considering grinding MTT's tai

[Sprayed]

tai, use Wiz for these spots. Mess around with ranges and the EV mode. It will give you a pretty good idea as to whether you played it wrong or right. Wiz has the 180 payout structure.

[taipan168]

tai, use Wiz for these spots. Mess around with ranges and the EV mode. It will give you a pretty good idea as to whether you played it wrong or right. Wiz has the 180 payout structure.

Does it? I looked and I didn't see the 180 structure, it only went up to 45.

[chardrian]

omg MTTai

pay jump is the only problem imo, not worried at all about him not open shoving. If he put 7500 in I would be a little more concerned. Assuming the next few spots pay close and the money is not a big boost to the roll, I gamble

I concur.

[KoRnholio]

Gambool. This guy only has 6.5BB and essentially shoved it in.

[Sprayed]

tai, use Wiz for these spots. Mess around with ranges and the EV mode. It will give you a pretty good idea as to whether you played it wrong or right. Wiz has the 180 payout structure.

Does it? I looked and I didn't see the 180 structure, it only went up to 45.

Update wiz.

Apparently, from an ICM perspective this is a fold. He would have to be raising pretty wide for this to be a good push.

[mcatdog]

omg MTTai

Yep, time for a bit of a change. Still playing STTs though (as my other tables) however I have come to the very belated conclusion that although I can grind it out at SNGs the money is in MTTs

It's about time.

I think fold, he's got to be pretty loose for you to gamble here. I do think paying too strict attention to ICM is a mistake when you're 8-handed though, doubling up and getting a big stack has too many benefits that ICM doesn't account for.

[bendoro]

i think that i would fold here but hey im no expert

[taipan168]

tai, use Wiz for these spots. Mess around with ranges and the EV mode. It will give you a pretty good idea as to whether you played it wrong or right. Wiz has the 180 payout structure.

Does it? I looked and I didn't see the 180 structure, it only went up to 45.

Update wiz.

You actually need to create a custom structure in Wiz for the 180s, it's pretty easy.

[Sprayed]

tai, use Wiz for these spots. Mess around with ranges and the EV mode. It will give you a pretty good idea as to whether you played it wrong or right. Wiz has the 180 payout structure.

Does it? I looked and I didn't see the 180 structure, it only went up to 45.

Update wiz.

You actually need to create a custom structure in Wiz for the 180s, it's pretty easy.

lol, I just realized that I was under the assumption that I had two structures for the 180s. The one that I created and the one that wiz created. What happened was that my brain was confusing the "18" for the 18-man with the 180, if that makes any sense. I originally created my own structures for the 45s and 180s. They did create a structure for the 45s and not the 180s. So I thought that I was seeing two structures for each.

As always tai is right.

[frreshprince]

to me thats an EZ shove you had 5xBBs lol and he could have tons of different hands
AND YOU'RE s0000000000000000000000000000ted.