Good fold or sissy fold?

[CorbinDallas]

this is the $5 2R1A.

during the rebuy period... this hand happened. foolish of me to think anyone here is folding any Ten... but i had outs. not horrible of me ... i don't think.

hand 1.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.50 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t5615)
Hero (Button) (t4665)
SB (t11459)
BB (t7525)
UTG (t2485)
UTG+1 (t9965)
MP1 (t15701)
MP2 (t1765)
MP3 (t7870)

Hero's M: 51.83

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, 6
6 folds, Hero bets t180, 1 fold, BB calls t120

Flop: (t390) 10, 4, 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t190, BB raises to t480, Hero raises to t1920, BB raises to t7345 (All-In), Hero calls t2565 (All-In)

Turn: (t9360) K (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t9360) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t9360

after the hand he typed in f off.


then 1st hand after rebuy period. this guy check raises me again. now his stats are 27/2.6/infinity... 3/6 bet flop 2/3 bet turn 2/2 bet river. probably never 3 bets... calls with lots of stuff out of position... just plays whatever hand he wants from wherever.

i think he would call on the BB with alot... we are beating AJ, KT, QT, Axs, unless he's pissed enough to shove in 99-TT... cuz he thinks i'm a punk.

people in these micro tourneys just don't play draws with a check raise unless its QTdiamonds... and about 10% of them will check raise with Axs... but then its usually just all in. most of the time its at least top pair or better.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.50 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds 10 Ante (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t5015)
Hero (Button) (t9880)
SB (t15139)
BB (t6330)
UTG (t4555)
UTG+1 (t13270)
MP1 (t14961)
MP2 (t3460)
MP3 (t10400)

Hero's M: 41.17

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, Q
5 folds, CO calls t100, Hero bets t425, 1 fold, BB calls t325, CO calls t325

Flop: (t1415) 6, J, K (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets t975, BB raises to t2100, 1 fold, Hero folds

Total pot: t3365


i felt like this was a good fold... since it seems this guy likes to check raise top pair.... does he really do this with KT?

[mcatdog]

Hand 1 is terrible just call the c/r. Hand 2 seems pretty close.

[CorbinDallas]

yeah... i probably gamble it up to much in rebuy periods. i just felt like once i re raised... i had to go with it.

kinda stupid of me to say... "people in these micro tourneys just don't play draws with a check raise unless its QTdiamonds... and about 10% of them will check raise with Axs... but then its usually just all in. most of the time its at least top pair or better. " and then think he's folding top pair when i re-raise him with my 30% to win 67.

[Sprayed]

Most of these types believe that everyone misses and min check raises TP to 3rd pair to even draws. With his stats and history, it would be hard for me to lay this down.

[baudib]

I don't know what we're worried about in Hand 2 other than KJ, 66. How do you feel about calling and re-evaluating on turn? I think it's worth trying to get to showdown here and plenty of cards will slow him down and/or give us a bit more equity on the turn.

[CorbinDallas]

yeah you might have his typed nailed.

i did however see another hand vs him and a SS utg limper. he was BB and checked T45 flop 2 hearts... limper bet half pot and he shoved with JT.... limper called with 33.

[CorbinDallas]

I don't know what we're worried about in Hand 2 other than KJ, 66. How do you feel about calling and re-evaluating on turn? I think it's worth trying to get to showdown here and plenty of cards will slow him down and/or give us a bit more equity on the turn.

when you say a card will come to give up more equity.... what do you mean exactly? low black cards and hearts?

[CorbinDallas]

I don't know what we're worried about in Hand 2 other than KJ, 66. How do you feel about calling and re-evaluating on turn? I think it's worth trying to get to showdown here and plenty of cards will slow him down and/or give us a bit more equity on the turn.

and yeah... i'm usually uncomfortable calling and re-evaluating on the turn. i need improvement in spots where calling the check raise is an option.

[baudib]

Well there are quite a few cards that will give us two pair or a half-decent draw. I realize that hoping for runners is probably stupid but I hate to just fold this for a flop min-raise -- those are often draws or second pair, especially with this guy who seems to shove with top pair.

[mcatdog]

Sorry but I don't think you've been flamed enough yet for how bad the 76o hand is. First of all it's a 2R1A not an unlimited rebuy so you can't use degen rebuy period gambling as an excuse. Second of all you're pretty deep, easily deep enough to see a turn; he has to fold like 70% of the time for getting it in on the flop to even be breakeven, but as you said, these guys don't c/r without top pair or better so he's folding less than 50% of the time, probably much less than 50% of the time. Based on your posts I doubt you were thinking of the hand in these terms though. If you have to go with it once you re-raised then think ahead and don't re-raise. It seems like you weren't thinking about his range, you were just so excited to flop an OESD that you clicked buttons furiously until you were all-in. Sorry to be so harsh but the KQo hand is very close and won't affect your ROI that much either way; the most important thing you can get out of this thread is to understand how bad the 76o hand is.

As for the KQo hand I'd probably call and see a turn. I don't think you're in great shape against his range so folding isn't horrible but these guys play so transparently that you can call anyway and his turn action will tell you whether your hand is good. If he checks or bets small then you have the best hand and you should try to get all-in. If he bets the pot then you should fold because he probably puts you on AK, and has AK beat but he's too dumb to know how to get max value. This is only a rule of thumb though, most fish play like I just described but not all of them. That's why I don't hate your fold because occasionally you'll get stacked if you follow my advice here.

[CorbinDallas]

yeah you're right.

i'm going to be very honest. thinking through the hand again... i think i looked at his 27/2.6 and thought "this guy is bad. he's just jackin around". it was like his stats put me on mini-tilt for a second.... like "i'll show him... this guy can't check raise me". LOLOLOL! yeah that's blatantly absurd on my part.... very bad.

[fjuanl]

mcat pretty much covered it, but I wanted to bring this up:

his stats are 27/2.6/infinity... 3/6 bet flop 2/3 bet turn 2/2 bet river.

I'd recommend just taking out the aggression stat from your HUD if you rely (or are tempted to rely) on this small of a sample to judge someone's style. 6 flops is really not a lot and its not unlikely that he simply was running good and bet with legitimate hands every time. I sometimes have this problem too and I definitely have been in that "ill show him" mindset without really being rational about it

edit: what did the BB show up with in Hand 1? it might help with Hand 2

[Sprayed]

occasionally you'll get stacked if you follow my advice here.

This would make someone a great sig.

[CorbinDallas]

yeah it would. lol. taken out of context... its quite funny.

in hand 1 he had AT.

[baudib]

I like discussing multiple hands against the same villain. He knows you like to semibluff your draws yet he's pricing you in. I just realized that PFR of 2.6% means he could be limping/not three-betting but there are a lot of Ks in his range and he's steaming. So I definitely prefer calling especially since position rulez.