Are we all gamblers?

[rong]

Hi all,

Bit of a random post, but wondering what your thoughts are.

Is what we do gambling?

And further, I'm sure many of us play every day, and are we therefore at risk of becoming addicted to gambling?

I play nearly everyday, for 2-3 hrs. I win regularly, never borrow to play, don't play if I have other important things to do, don't play for the rush or feel the urge to keep upping stakes, don't play with money I can't afford to lose or any of the other obvious 'I'm an addict' tendencies.

Also, I am playing with a strategy that mathematically implies I should win over the long term, and if anything I try to avoid 'gambling' with coin tosses wherever possible.

That said, I do play poker (and therefore in some peoples opinion gamble) everyday. I don't in anyway feel addicted, although in spite of my regular cash outs my girlfriend worries about me becomming addicted and would probably rather I didn't play at all. Gambling is without question addictive, so is this something I/we should be aware of and consider from time to time? Are we in danger of beomming addicted?

Any thoughts?

[Random_Hero]

I personally don't see anything wrong with gambling. If done correctly it is a really enjoyable way to spend money so long as your not gambling money you can't afford to lose.

Poker is definatley a form of gambling, there is no doubt about that. some people play wrecklessly and play big stakes with limited knowledge and lose a lot of money. If they can afford it and it doesnt affect other aspects of there lives then fine, let them.

I personally gamble most weekends on horse racing, football (soccer), and ocassionaly golf and boxing etc. I love a flutter and I never bet money I cant afford to lose. I have never felt addicted and have never felt i would become addicted to it.

I love poker and love learning about it. Im the same with horse racing. I love studying form, watching races etc etc.

gambling can be a healthy hobbie. most hobbies people have require them to spend money and gambling is the same I suppose.

nothing quite beats beating the bookie lol

[Nakamura]

Sure, we all gamble. You are putting down $5, expecting to win more.

However, poker is one the few types of gambling where you can win in spite of the house edge (since you may have a competitive edge over other players).

There is nothing wrong with adults putting down money (they can afford to lose) for recreational purposes.

Wiki on addiction: "The term "addiction" is used in many contexts to describe an obsession, compulsion, or excessive physical dependence or psychological dependence."

Thus addiction isn't necessarily the cliché of a guy dropping thousands of dollars into PokerStars. On the other hand, if (you feel) you are in control, this isn't addiction.

Personally, I gamble for both entertainment and profit, and I see nothing wrong with it. I have more of an issue with the suckers whose money I am taking. But then again, you can not control other people. At the end of the day, they are consenting adults and should make a decision whether or not to gamble for themselves.

[taipan168]

gam⋅ble
   /ˈgæmbəl/ [gam-buhl] Show IPA verb, -bled, -bling, noun
–verb (used without object)
1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.
2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.

So yes, we are all gamblers - but as Naka pointed out, poker is one of the very few forms of gambling where if you are a good player, you can get your chips/money in in situations where a skilled player can consistently beat both the other players and the house edge.

As for addiction, yes I do believe that people can get addicted to playing poker just as they can to any other form of gambling and that a poker addiction can be just as damaging as any other gambling addiction. You only need to look at those players who have lost 5-6 figures for evidence of people who are either very rich or hopelessly addicted.

[mslele40]

I quess the answer to this is yes and no, since we do play to gain something more than what we came into this with i.e money, knowledge adreniline. It also sounds like ur girlfriend has nothing to worry about, if you played any other sport or game that requires skill you would have to dedicate time and energy to improve those skills a football player can not just go out onto the field without practicing and expect to win same as a chess player can not expect to win without some type of knowledge on how to play, that person would have to put time and energy into the game to become the best at it, and poker should not be any different.

[Jack Sawyer]

I'm addicted to so many things:

pussy, bubble butts, many kinds of chocolate, deal or no deal, molten cheese

but I can't get addicted to poker. No matter what I do, for every day I play, I need 2 days off. For every 2 days I play, I need at least 5 days off. etc.

[surviva316]

addiction runs in my family, and i can say that this definitely affects my outlook on my poker career (if i can call it that). i get worried if i play another tournament instead of working on my paper and do a lot introspection on why i play, how i feel when i play and how playing is affecting my life. i've been concerned here and there about certain aspects but haven't gotten to the point where i feel i need to put it down for a while.

if you are being honest with yourself that you're not suffering from any of the symptoms that you listed then i think you're fine. being constantly conscious of it sounds healthy to me though

[jackdog1963]

I dont think of poker as gambling in the same way I think of the lottery and casino house games.

You have a little more control over what and how you play.

But I guess its still gambling in the big picture

[beingUndude]

From Jackie Witt on pokerblogdotcom:

There had been some headway in proving that poker is not just a game of chance. In a study released at the end of March, it was proved that Texas Hold’em Poker is statistically a game of skill. The study was conducted by Cigital and investigated 103 million hands on PokerStars. Of these hands, 75% did not make it to show down. This proved that there was substantial skill involved in getting people to fold their hands. Regardless of if they had the best hand or not, players were able to out maneuver their opponents getting them to fold. In the remaining 25% of the hands, the best hand only won 50% of time because the other half of the time the best hand had already folded. This proved that the best hand only took down the pot 12% of the time. According to these calculations, the test proved that Texas Hold’em is 88% skill and only 12% chance.

This data has been fundamental in proving that poker is not a game of chance like the lottery, and therefore should not be subject to the same gambling laws. The PPA has been using this data to back up their claims in legal battles surrounding the ban of poker in the United States. States like South Carolina, Colorado, and Pennsylvania have ruled in the PPA’s favor ruling that poker is a game of skill. These rulings will hopefully be recognized on a national level, and the laws against poker can be reevaluated on the terms that poker is not a game of chance.

[rong]

I like that. It's a little bit ambiguous, I'd like to see the raw data. But I like it all the same.

[rong]

For anyone interested, the full report from Cigital can be found here:

http://www.cigital.com/resources/gam...ysisReport.pdf

[TLR]

I think poker is a forum of 'educated' gambing, if you know what you are doing you have an edge, so it is gamblin but with the odds slightly in your favor if you know what you are doing other then slightly against you as in most other forums of gambling.

Regarding additiction, it has the potential of being addictive, but it depends a lot on your personality, if you have decent level of self control you can control your level of addiction

[vlmcs]

in my opinion, we all have a serious gambling problem, or else we wouldn't be here in this forum talking about this.

[aka_red]

i have a serious problem. i wager and lose thousands of dollars every day that i play. i need some help seriously this is bad.

[bikes]

i have a serious problem. i wager and lose thousands of dollars every day that i play. i need some help seriously this is bad.

But how much did you win?????

[aka_red]

i have a serious problem. i wager and lose thousands of dollars every day that i play. i need some help seriously this is bad.

But how much did you win?????

...oh, actually come to think about it, i won significantly more than i lost.

[TonyB73]

Of course its gambling. We are putting our money on the line against someone else's, in a situation where the outcome is highly influenced by chance.

However, they key difference with other forms of gambling is that there is a significant element of skill involved, AND we are betting against other players rather than against the house. Therefore the odds are not inherently stacked against us. If we have a consistent edge in skill over our opponents, we can expect to win over the long term.

[casdav05]

You are asking a biased group. Whether anyone here thinks its gambling or not, nobody sees anything wrong with it. What I ask people who criticize it is, What would you say to an entrepeneur who dumps his family's life savings into a business that might make him a living or might flop and make him go broke. He's risking his money to gain an advantage. Wouldn't that classify as a gamble?
People can always find a way to justify their beliefs no matter what the topic is.
PLAY ON BROTHER!!!

[Luco]

Ya rly? You think this is a biased group?

[Poker Orifice]

I'm very addicted to poker,... but I'm not big on gambling.

[2ndline.4thstreet]

Its educated gambling imo. I've been reading the Poker Mindset recently and to quote it they say: "In the short term luck is king. In the long term skill is king." (its close to that anyway) So yeah, we're gambling, but with a lot of control and knowledge so its not the same as say craps or slot machines.

[drmcboy]

not understanding it is gambling causes a lot of bad play and almost all of the tilt in the world.

[kevster]

Gambling, obv.

However, and I hate to quote Phil Gordon, but I like his description of "strategic investment".