small ball approach out of position

[AK_suited]

I want to know how other players that use the "small ball" approach play hands like small/mid pairs, AKo/s-ATo/s out off position like from the sb all the way to the utg+2.

And how would you guys play these hands with multiple limpers in the pot (in or out of position).

[Luco]

What's the small ball approach?

[AK_suited]

Small ball approach is a style of play that ultilizes small prefop bets to control the size of pots and hide the strength of your hands. By making these smaller bets usually in position you can save chips if re-raised and you can force oponennts to play hands that your hand dominates. The overall goal is to play more pots and to increase the action at the table so your BIG hands will get paid off

[Fjaman]

you cant small ball oop with multiple limpers, you will only inflate the pot, small ball works best in position with a big hand, ie just calling with big PP and min raising a wide variety of hands when its folded to you on a semi tight or tight table, big hands OOP (JJ+,AK) against multiple limpers mandates a big raise to thin the field or take it down right there, thats how i would play it

[AK_suited]

That's what I feel too for example if there are 4 limpers + BB and SB and the blinds were at 100/200 and I'm in the CO or HJ with a mid/big pair of 2 OC I would normally raise to 700-800 to take down a 1000 pot. Because its a good profit to risk 4bb to win 5bb its better than risking 10bb to win 5bb because you would have to win it 2 of 3 times to break even.

[Fjaman]

exactly thats why smallball approaches only are really usefull in live tourneys when you´re super deep. M between 50-100, the super big raise simply wouldnt be worth it there to increase your stack with say 5%, online that same big raise can increase your stack with 25-40% and then its totally worth it

[AK_suited]

What do you do when u are in ep(SB,BB,or UTG-UTG+2) with a hand like KJ,AT-AK, mid/big pair with no limpers and like 6 more people to act? you don't want to raise to much because you could give off a tell but you don't want to let to many caller see a cheap flop due to pot odds and that's how big hands get CRACKED!!

[Fjaman]

depends on the stack size of you, your opponent, what stage the tourney is in ie. blinds and antes, close to the bubble or not, reads and your table image, so you have to be a little more specific...

[AK_suited]

That's also true but even if you have no reads yet in the begining of the tourney with 75bb effective stacks on a full table with AT UTG its hard to know where you at if you have multiple callers and there is an Ace on the flop. It would be hard to get a read on where you at if you can't put a sizable raise, but if you bet 2.5bb utg and pick up 6 callers that's 15bb on the flop what do u bet that still falls into the small ball strategy I try to bet 1/3-1/2 pot I know its small but it does 2 things for me
1. I could take the pot down
2. I could get re-raised and the monster exposes himself.
I'm not to scared of the bluff that happens when you play a small bet style

[Fjaman]

Ok, first 75bb, you mean first level 10-20 with 1500 starting chips, i guess, UTG, UTG+1 A10off, AJ off you can easily fold this early, middle pairs up to 1010 you can just call and set mine, AK, AQ def. a raise around 80-100, this early its important to not go nutso post flop with unpaired overcards, if you get 2 or more callers dont try a cont. bet if you dont hit, odds are that you are beat. On a dry board against 1 opp, its worth a try...

Early when your deep against a loose passive table with lots of limping i would play alot of suited connectors and gappers to try and hit and double up, big pairs can be played super aggressively so that you isolate only 1 max 2 opp

[AK_suited]

Cool your responses seem to be standard "solid" player ans I hope I can get feedback from others on this topic this could turn out good

[Fjaman]

yeah its a tightish approach like my playing style, its not really that profitable to play loose on the early stages of a MTT. Had it been an hour in the advice would be drastically different since the aggression increases with the potsize...

[Luco]

Very early in the tourney I limp lower pp's and play 'set or forget' with them. With TP type hands like AT+ I will generally fold the more marginal hands like KQ, KJ, AT from EP and raise the stronger ones to isolate because they play better HU than multiway.

As the blinds increase everything gets open raised 2.5-3bb because often you're happy just to take the blinds down without a fuss.

[Sprayed]

Stacks on-line typically start off shallow (75bb starting stack isn't exactly deep). You aren't usually deep enough to be splashing around. In addition, players on-line early in tournaments, are too loose for plays to work. Just bet 3xbb until the antes kick in is standard. You can 2.5x or so when the blinds are worth stealing.

Your range of hands that you raise can vary depending upon how loose or tight the table is so I wouldn't go by a strict hand range. You can raise when in lp with a wide range after one or two limpers if you know that they are the type that will fold pre or fold to your flop c-bet when they check to you. Otherwise just limp behind and hope to hit or everyone checks and you steal the pot with a bet.