Quiz time!

[Nakamura]

Quiz time, folks!

NO LOOKING AT OTHER PEOPLE'S ANSWERS! - NO USE OF POKER STOVE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF AIDS

Villain has been pushing almost every hand (as have we), so we can safely assume the villain's range is 80%.

1) Call or fold? - The easy bit
2) What should your calling range be in this spot? - The hard bit

Hero ($1,420)
Satikoff ($1,280)

Satikoff posts (SB) $120
Hero posts (BB) $240

Dealt to Hero Kc Js
Satikoff raises to $1,280
Hero ??

I'll post some results if enough people take a stab.

[mcatdog]

Is this a HU SNG? Are there antes?

[Nakamura]

Is this a HU SNG? Are there antes?

Super-turbo (no antes), everyone starts with 300 chips at 15/30 blinds

[Nakamura]

If you have got this far and have not yet posted, STOP PEEKING and use YOUR brain.

You won't learn anything from copying other people's answers.

[baudib]

If he's pushing like every hand I'd probably call with something like any A, any pp, J8s+, J9o+, Q9+, K2+.

[RockyMoose]

Just a guess. Range to open shove is J9+, range to call is K9+? I'll admit, I have no idea.

[rong]

I'd say call A2+, K2+, Q2+, j7+, T8s+, 22+,

[Raoni_Poker]

Just guessing here...
Against a range of 80%, I would call with something like A2+, K8+, Q8+, J9+ and 22+

[OneEyeLefty]

CALL

Any A or K, any suited, any connectors, any one gappers, Q9, JT, 66+

[surviva316]

i guess i'll take a stab. DEFINITELY calling with KJ. things that are definitely in my range are QJ+, any ace and 77+. there are a lot of other things that i see myself calling with (eg JT and a lot of K's) but would really have to feel certain about that 80% range (see him push like 4 out of 6 hands or something) before i start including those

[surviva316]

just read through some of the answers. are people really calling with 22 33 or 44? we have nothing beat and are dominated by quite a bit. definitely shovin those all day 'cause of FE but i don't see the blinds as making up for lost value on CALLING with

[linaker]

Any pair, Ace, King or Queen, J7+, T7+, 98, 97s, 87s.

[fulksy]

Call my range 55+, k10+, A2+

[Outlaw]

Quiz time, folks!

NO LOOKING AT OTHER PEOPLE'S ANSWERS! - NO USE OF POKER STOVE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF AIDS

Villain has been pushing almost every hand (as have we), so we can safely assume the villain's range is 80%.

1) Call or fold? - The easy bit
2) What should your calling range be in this spot? - The hard bit

Hero ($1,420)
Satikoff ($1,280)

Satikoff posts (SB) $120
Hero posts (BB) $240

Dealt to Hero Kc Js
Satikoff raises to $1,280
Hero ??

I'll post some results if enough people take a stab.

Q7o+ is my default here. Although any sc above like 76s is probably +ev

[TonyB73]

I hear you surviva - there are some pretty wide ranges here - but with the big blind at close to 20% of our stack we can't afford to be too choosy.

I would say probably any pair, any A, any K, 76s+, 87+, Q9+

[Rage2100]

At this blind level, with Villain pushing 80% of hands, I'd call pretty wide.

1) I'd definitely call with KJo.
2) My calling range would be any pocket pair, and any A, K, Q, or J probably.

[Luco]

He has AA, so you should only call with 72o or three aces.

[Raoni_Poker]

just read through some of the answers. are people really calling with 22 33 or 44? we have nothing beat and are dominated by quite a bit. definitely shovin those all day 'cause of FE but i don't see the blinds as making up for lost value on CALLING with

hands like 22, 33, 44, 55, 66 are better than any unpaired hand. So...with a range of 80% a think they are pretty good hands to call.

[Nakamura]

just read through some of the answers. are people really calling with 22 33 or 44? we have nothing beat and are dominated by quite a bit. definitely shovin those all day 'cause of FE but i don't see the blinds as making up for lost value on CALLING with

hands like 22, 33, 44, 55, 66 are better than any unpaired hand. So...with a range of 80% a think they are pretty good hands to call.

Surprisingly 22 will be behind hands like T7s. But since there are a lot more ways to have T7o (and we are slightly ahead) compared to T7s, 22 will show a very small margin versus an opponent's standard range.

Also 22 is a few % ahead of unconnected hands like T5o. So you should be prepared to accept the infrequent times you are behind, for the times you are ahead

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.856% 46.96% 00.89% 19299876 366882.00 { 22 }
Hand 1: 52.144% 51.25% 00.89% 21061656 366882.00 { T7s }

[TLR]

I have only read the original post, not any of the replies, so if this stuff has been said already I am sorry for the repitition

One piece of missing info is how does he repond to our pushes, if his calling range is narrow my calling range will also be a bit narrower

I would call with KJ

My calling range will include all PP, A6+, KT+, QJ, QTs, JTs, K9s

[Nakamura]

I have only read the original post, not any of the replies, so if this stuff has been said already I am sorry for the repitition

One piece of missing info is how does he repond to our pushes, if his calling range is narrow my calling range will also be a bit narrower

Nobody else has asked for this information yet. Looking back through the HH, Hero pushes 5 times into villain HU. Villain only called once, when Hero had 240 chips after posting, and flipped up T4. So I guess you can assume his calling range is fairly tight.

Just to expand on what TLR is suggesting, Hero should pass up a small edge (i.e. make a mistake in his calling range by folding the very worst of the correct calling range), if he believes the villain is likely to make even bigger mistakes when it's his turn to call (i.e. folding too tightly). It's pretty heady stuff, but can lead to better profits if you apply the principal correctly.

[Raoni_Poker]

just read through some of the answers. are people really calling with 22 33 or 44? we have nothing beat and are dominated by quite a bit. definitely shovin those all day 'cause of FE but i don't see the blinds as making up for lost value on CALLING with

hands like 22, 33, 44, 55, 66 are better than any unpaired hand. So...with a range of 80% a think they are pretty good hands to call.

Surprisingly 22 will be behind hands like T7s. But since there are a lot more ways to have T7o (and we are slightly ahead) compared to T7s, 22 will show a very small margin versus an opponent's standard range.

Also 22 is a few % ahead of unconnected hands like T5o. So you should be prepared to accept the infrequent times you are behind, for the times you are ahead

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.856% 46.96% 00.89% 19299876 366882.00 { 22 }
Hand 1: 52.144% 51.25% 00.89% 21061656 366882.00 { T7s }

That's funny...22 x AKs (the best unpaired hand) is 50% (22 is actually slightly ahead)

It is probably because 10-7s makes more straights in comparison with AKs.

[baudib]

yeah...JTs is a favorite over 55.

[Gshark]

Definite call.

(and I thought that before I read anyone's answers)

[Kijjo]

insta-call
my range here is 22+, any A, any K, Q5+, J7+ and anything smaller that's connected or suited and within gapping range.

[Nakamura]

Ok, it seems like we have run out of steam ...

The correct calling range for an opponent raising 80% of hands is surprisingly wide 22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J3+,J2s+,T6+,T3s+,97+.

Well done to everyone who made a genuine effort.

If there is interest we can discus why the profitable calling range is so wide and why you might not actually want to call as wide as T3s (even though SNGWIZ tells you calling is profitable).

[surviva316]

If there is interest we can discus why the profitable calling range is so wide and why you might not actually want to call as wide as T3s (even though SNGWIZ tells you calling is profitable).

because if the player is bad enough to simply push 80% of his hands, then we might as well wait til we get better than 51% equity?

also, i know that this question is purposely placed in a vacuum, but i wanna point out that you're never gonna be in a situation in a tournament where you have a 100% read on someone that this is what he does and he sticks to it. I mean you would have to be heads up against him for like 50 hands which is unlikely against such a loose opponent. I think it's dangerous to see the number 80 and start cranking it through SNGWIZ and letting us decide what's most profitable. don't get me wrong, I'm opening up my range like crazy against someone who pushes 8 times in 10 hands or even 4 times in 5 hands, but i'm at least waiting for some paint or a PP

[taipan168]

because if the player is bad enough to simply push 80% of his hands, then we might as well wait til we get better than 51% equity?

This is a Nash equilibrium problem, and I disagree that a player who shoves 80% of hands is a bad player with stacks so short. In this spot, I'm shoving close to 100% of hands unless I know that opp will (correctly) call wide enough. From the responses above, we can see that even solid players don't call wide enough, making shoving 100% of hands +EV.

[rong]

In fact, it makes sense that it has to be profitable to push 100% of hands. Because in a game like this, it's all over in very few hands, so there isn't a big enough sample size for opp to estimnate range on proportion of hands shoved/folded. So if opp assumes you are pushing say even top 65% of hands (which isn't particularly loose here) then his appropriate calling range is x%. But as most players aren't aware what the appropriate calling range is (as demonstrated above) we can probably assume that opps range is less than the appropriate X%. And therefore we are entitled to push even more, so may as well push 100%, as opp won't have enough hands to know we opened that wide anyway.

[Rage2100]

One piece of missing info is how does he repond to our pushes, if his calling range is narrow my calling range will also be a bit narrower

This is an excellent point, and one which must not be overlooked.

From the responses above, we can see that even solid players don't call wide enough, making shoving 100% of hands +EV.

This is similar to TLR's point, and reinforces the fact that we may be able to fold certain hands if we know Villain will also fold more hands than he should when we push.


In these super-turbos though, the heads-up usually only lasts a few hands, so I would still have trouble folding hands like A2, A3, A4, etc. We may not get a better hand than this with these blind levels. If we fold something like A4, and then push with J6 next hand, get called by K2, and bust out, we may wish we'd called with our A4.

What I'm trying to say is, it's a very fine balance that we must find.

[bikes]

Didn't you all read the Tony G? Never overplay King Jack. The next thing you know, is some angry Australian is going to tell you to get on a bike and go somewhere up and away?

[casdav05]

I'm inexperienced with any software or alot of the technical aspects right now, but with him pushing 80% and stack sizes being as close as they are, KJo is strong in HU play. I would call with it. His range is too broad to put him on anything of value. According to the Nash Push/Fold Equilibrium that is a push all day long. Pushing that many hands, is there even a range. He could have 72o just as easy as having the bullets. Like I said I am well behind the learning curve. I just recently started really trying to disect different play. That may be the reason that I've donked off like a grand or better last year just playing micro stake MTT on PokerStars.

[melinda1978]

even thouht is heads up and k j should be good the odds of lossing are too good to risk it all i one hand without seing a flop. I would fold and wait to cant a hand and then push. thanks

[kyle-mac1989]

Call, range would be around 80%