Tough spot kinda deep.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Alright, so the mark in this game is MP, who is running like 60/40 going crazy. He cold 4-bet 57s and got it in against me when i had TT and i held. He started going even more bonkers after that but built a stack and now has calmed down. Still playing loosish preflop but not super bad postflop. CO is a bumhunter i've seen once or twice, running kinda loosish and passive. I wouldnt be surprised to see J8s called preflop here.

Basically looking at flop line (please dont over look this) and river play. the fish basically always c-bets something so i think that intuition probably could isolate AJ on the flop. His shove was quick on the river.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $50.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($8943)
BB ($6844)
UTG ($5000)
MP ($16393)
CO ($10000)
Hero (Button) ($22783)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3, 3
1 fold, MP bets $175, CO calls $175, Hero calls $175, 1 fold, BB calls $125

Flop: ($725) 8, 3, J (4 players)
BB checks, MP bets $350, CO raises to $1050, Hero calls $1050, 1 fold, MP calls $700

Turn: ($3875) K (3 players)
MP checks, CO bets $2850, Hero calls $2850, 1 fold

River: ($9575) K (2 players)
CO bets $5925 (All-In)

[griffey24]

If MP is such a whale, I'd find it hard to imagine CO ever flatting JJ pre and not isolating.

So I feel like we're behind only 8's full, KJ sometimes, and he could be value towning AJ and Kxss.

I'm not thrilled about it, but I think pot odds make it a call, esp since its possible he's value shoving worse.

[Ravageur]

maybe a stupid question,

But are you flatting the flop because you want to keep MP in the hand or because you don't think you can get it in this deep profitably on the flop or because you don't feel the need to flip vs a combo draw this deep etc..

Maybe it's obvious but this is my first post on FTR in so damn long but this hand really intrigues me.

[meeloche]

If MP is such a whale, I'd find it hard to imagine CO ever flatting JJ pre and not isolating.

So I feel like we're behind only 8's full, KJ sometimes, and he could be value towning AJ and Kxss.

I'm not thrilled about it, but I think pot odds make it a call, esp since its possible he's value shoving worse.

I wouldn't discount JJ as much as griffey would but I pretty much agree with all of this. I would also add that the draws missed dependent on what level you guys are on.

I think you played it well and I would call.

[Fnord]

But are you flatting the flop because

Wants to keep the fish in the pot and give himself a chance to make a good turn play.

Why the turn flat?

There is a lot of money in there, a lot of possible second best hands they're terrible enough to felt and a shit load of draws.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I think I like it fine, but rivers real close, probably its fold. It's just so doubtful that someone raises a draw four way unless its very good. If I was him though I'd prob check the river if I had 88 or JJ and try to get me to shove with a missed draw.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

fyi guys the player, from the little info i had, could definitely show up with JJ here.

[IowaSkinsFan]

fyi guys the player, from the little info i had, could definitely show up with JJ here.

I think you have to give it half the likely hood, if not less, of 88.

[Alexos]

I think I like it fine, but rivers real close, probably its fold. It's just so doubtful that someone raises a draw four way unless its very good. If I was him though I'd prob check the river if I had 88 or JJ and try to get me to shove with a missed draw.

Since fish cbet only half pot, I think the likelihood of him raising his draws are much higher

Also, if I was villain, I'd rarely expect Hero to shove a missed draw here on the river. Is this bad?

As played sick spot, I'd prolly call cuz of pot odds and its still possible he value shoves worse sometimes

[Numbr2intheWorld]

alexos, you said that since the fish c-bet half pot the likely hood that he raises draws is higher. But his raise size suggests that he isn't trying to get anyone to fold.

[Alexos]

seems kinda std to me given stacks and almost 3x in pos