AK from SB: a shove or min raise?

[Raoni_Poker]

Hi, this hand is from a 1,20SG at CD Poker. I got AK on the SB and pushed. However, in retrospect, I think the min raise could perhaps extract more chips in case the BB shoves over me (to re-steal). I shoved because BBs calling range can be wider. They can think you're just stealing with garbage and call it with Ax (as I did in a hand posted previously).

How would you play the hand?

No-Limit Hold'em, $200.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($1900)
BB ($2930)
UTG ($4350)
MP ($2260)
CO ($1250)
Button ($2310)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A
4 folds, Hero bets $1800 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $400

[nibbles]

It has been recommended on this site that when you have 10bb's or less you should just shove. But me in this blind vs blind scenario, I would only raise half my stack then (if called) shove the flop regardless. Half your stack is a third of his so you might get action. This play has worked a bunch for me in the past, where villain calls pre and folds flop. A few times they called flop with nothing just cos, allowing me to double up. Sometimes they catch and you'll lose, but more times than not it woks out. But this play is for blind vs blind only. Maybe from the button. You don't wanna do this and get 2 or 3 players calling behind trying to bust you. But HELL NO to the minraise!!!

[taipan168]

Shove is fine here, particularly against an aggressive opp - he will call with many hands that you beat (think Ax, Kx).

Go and go (as described by nibbles) isn't a bad option either. If you want to do this, make it 700 to go and shove any flop if called. Even if you miss the flop, shove and get called, you'll generally have a 1 in 3 chance of spiking an A or K on the turn or river.

Don't minraise - if he flat calls and you miss the flop you're in an awkward position with your stack size (ie. there will be 800 chips in the pot, you'll have 1600 behind and a reasonable c-bet will be 500 chips meaning that if he shoves over you're pot committed).

[Raoni_Poker]

Thanks,

I think that a raise of 700 has the same fold equity of a shove, does not it? The difference IMO is that when you're called by a better hand, you dont necessarily lose all your chips (unless you shove regardless of the flop).

The minraise could work to induce the BB to shove over you, but I think with AK is not a smart idea. Altough, I'd do it with AA (I'd just call), KK (min raise). Does this sounds stupid?

[taipan168]

I think that a raise of 700 has the same fold equity of a shove, does not it? The difference IMO is that when you're called by a better hand, you dont necessarily lose all your chips (unless you shove regardless of the flop).

If you are raising 700 then you are shoving any flop whether you hit or not. You can't raise 700 then decide to c/f a flop you don't like, that's spewing chips.

Besides, I do think that some hands like QJo, KTo and 98s might call a raise to 700 but might fold to a shove. Also, what "better hand" are you scared of? You're either ahead or at worst flipping, and you're only dominated by AA and KK.

The minraise could work to induce the BB to shove over you, but I think with AK is not a smart idea. Altough, I'd do it with AA (I'd just call), KK (min raise). Does this sounds stupid?

I'd only complete the SB with AA against a super LAGG opponent who would raise/shove over every time. Why give opp a free card to beat you? In virtually all circumstances I'd make it 600 to go and hope he calls or shoves over. With KK I'd definitely raise to 600, last thing you want to do is complete or minraise and see the A flop.

[Raoni_Poker]

I think that a raise of 700 has the same fold equity of a shove, does not it? The difference IMO is that when you're called by a better hand, you dont necessarily lose all your chips (unless you shove regardless of the flop).

If you are raising 700 then you are shoving any flop whether you hit or not. You can't raise 700 then decide to c/f a flop you don't like, that's spewing chips.

Besides, I do think that some hands like QJo, KTo and 98s might call a raise to 700 but might fold to a shove. Also, what "better hand" are you scared of? You're either ahead or at worst flipping, and you're only dominated by AA and KK.

The minraise could work to induce the BB to shove over you, but I think with AK is not a smart idea. Altough, I'd do it with AA (I'd just call), KK (min raise). Does this sounds stupid?

I'd only complete the SB with AA against a super LAGG opponent who would raise/shove over every time. Why give opp a free card to beat you? In virtually all circumstances I'd make it 600 to go and hope he calls or shoves over. With KK I'd definitely raise to 600, last thing you want to do is complete or minraise and see the A flop.

OK, I admit you're rigth about all that. Thanks for the advices.

However, to me, in these SB situations a standard or strong raise sounds much more like a strong holding than a shove. When you shove from the SB, you're begging: please, dont call me. In this case, I think the raise shows more strength than pushing all in. But thats the way I see it. My opponents are not concerned with that and whenever I have the opportunity, I'm calling their ATC shoves from the BB.

And thats why I shoved AK here...hoping that my opponent was thinking that I did not indended to get called (I would think that in his position). With AA I tend to think that a minraise or a standard raise (3BB) can extract more money, because you're HU and have the best hand possible PF. I he shoves over....great. I he calls...great. If he folds...whatelse can you do?

I would not call a standard raise from the BB with a hand that I would not call a shove in the same situation. Of course, I think many players would and thats why your argument is correct.

[baudib]

My thought is we should be shoving a lot of hands into the BB so once in a while we have to actually have a good one. You get snapped up here by a lot of hands we crush.

[Raoni_Poker]

Here is an example concerning playing AA from the SB. I was stealing a lot over the BB mixing shoves with standard raises and I got AA on the SB.
I minraised (I was tempted to complete the blind) and he did not called (as he would not call a shove or a standard raise). But in this case, the minraise has considerably less fold equity than a huge raise or a shove. Unfortunetaly, he did not called and won the SG (I was 3rd). Would you shove AA in this spot?

No-Limit Hold'em, $300.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($3670)
BB ($4960)
UTG ($1560)
MP ($2655)
Button ($2155)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
3 folds, Hero bets $450, 1 fold

Total pot: $600

Results in white below:
Hero had A, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $900

[tpb221]

It's not a bad play with the AA to just call in the sb IF you think he will shove over your weak show other wise just bet it and hope he calls. First hand is fine though I would just make a standard raise seeing the BB has a good stack and has no need to call a all-in with a weak hand.