Turbo Don: Shove ATC spot?

[Micro2Macro]

Villain is 14/10 according to the HUD stats I have on him, so he isn't a complete fish or anything, but I imagine he doesn't abide perfectly by ICM either.

I was multitabling at the time and had no specific reads:

For you DON players, is this a standard shove?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.10 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 20 Ante (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) (t1705)
BB (t1600)
UTG (t5020)
MP (t2790)
CO (t1320)
Button (t2565)

Hero's M: 4.06

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 10
4 folds, Hero bets t1685 (All-In)

Because we are both equal size stacks and there is yet a shorter stack in play, I felt that I could profitably shove ATC here because he would have to have a very tight calling range for his call to be profitable.

[Projectp]

I dont play DONs but i can definately see shoving ATC profitable here. If your BB what would you need to make this call?

[TLR]

I dont play much DONs but I would fold it. It is the bubble and it is a $1 buy in, someone is bound to shoot itself in the foot before long

[Sprayed]

Purchase sngwiz and you can figure these out yourself. This is pretty close. Depending upon how loose or tight they are it could go either way. Also, when on the bubble in these and you are in the top 5, you don't want to be playing that many hands. There is no first so no reward for more chips than everyone else. The other thing to keep in mind is that the shorter stacks will tend to call wider because they think that they need to gamble to survive.

[Rage2100]

I'd fold this at a $1 buy-in. People call way too wide in these from the BB, when the SB pushes. Also, CO has a smaller stack than you, so I'd wait, and let others make a mistake.

[Micro2Macro]

Right, so if I understand correctly, a villains' spite call will end up spewing away not only his equity - but mine as well - to the rest of the field, thus making shoving solely based on ICM a mistake in this instance because villain is not aware of ICM.

In other words if he makes a bad call it only hurts both of our ROI's?

I'm going to purchase SNG whiz soon for sure, I've just been trying to get a feel for general strategy at the lowest stakes before playing where my bankroll will allow me to, so I haven't invested in the software yet - though I should get on that so I can make this analysis more useful.

I've studied a bit of ICM and felt that shoving here was correct if villains calling range was appropriately tight, which I expected it to be, though I'm probably giving to much credit to people at this level for understanding that calling all in wide in this spot is pretty terrible. So I should have adjusted for the fact that I would be looked up lighter and folded.

Thanks for all the input guys. If my thinking here is off track don't hesitate to let me know

[Rage2100]

Because we are both equal size stacks and there is yet a shorter stack in play, I felt that I could profitably shove ATC here because he would have to have a very tight calling range for his call to be profitable.

This is good thinking as long as the BB is aware of how to play these properly.

Right, so if I understand correctly, a villains' spite call will end up spewing away not only his equity - but mine as well - to the rest of the field, thus making shoving solely based on ICM a mistake in this instance because villain is not aware of ICM.

In other words if he makes a bad call it only hurts both of our ROI's?

Yes, this is exactly right.

I'm going to purchase SNG whiz soon for sure, I've just been trying to get a feel for general strategy at the lowest stakes before playing where my bankroll will allow me to, so I haven't invested in the software yet - though I should get on that so I can make this analysis more useful.

It is well worth buying if you are going to play a lot of DoNs or regular SnGs.

[Nakamura]

In other words if he makes a bad call it only hurts both of our ROI's?

Probably the most annoying thing in double or nothings. A loose caller to your left can screw up your equity (and his).

I'm going to purchase SNG whiz soon for sure, I've just been trying to get a feel for general strategy at the lowest stakes before playing where my bankroll will allow me to, so I haven't invested in the software yet - though I should get on that so I can make this analysis more useful.

I feel Wiz has limited application in DON, since it becomes much more important to determine who is going to be under pressure first. This obviously means they have to take risks first, which is +EV to you. Undoubtedly ICM is important, but sometimes it takes a backseat to other considerations.

I've studied a bit of ICM and felt that shoving here was correct if villains calling range was appropriately tight, which I expected it to be, though I'm probably giving to much credit to people at this level for understanding that calling all in wide in this spot is pretty terrible. So I should have adjusted for the fact that I would be looked up lighter and folded.

While the villain's range should be appropriately tight, I see all sorts of calls in these spots at the $10 and $20 level. Some players will call with AK or 66 here, which is obviously far too wide. Because of the flat payout structure, your opp needs to be about 80% to win to profitably call. If I was desperate for chips, I might push here, but the presence of a significantly shorter stack means I'm folding pretty quick.

[kevster]

First up, it's an easy fold. Believe it or not, an M of 4 is not completely desperate in DON's unless the blinds are about to rise.

Also.....

Also, when on the bubble in these and you are in the top 5, you don't want to be playing that many hands.

This is crucial advice for DONs. There are two shorter stacks - BB(t1600) & CO (t1320) and the CO is about to hit the blinds again. Even though it's late in the tourney, I'm still only playing strong hands BvB unless the situation at the table changes.

Finally, your biggest problem is the buy-in. I see plenty of people making dumb ass plays at the $10 level so navigating the $1's is going to be a nightmare because you'll get a lot of people making plays you wouldn't expect.