Discussion: My MTT Strategy

[Aceofone]

RE: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?p=17185


Thats a big post.

My brain hurts from reading all of it. Thank you Micheal for taking the time to write it, my MTT game is horribly weak, I'm not certain if you remember the FTR IV (damn I hate KK) but we played heads up after and I got schooled by you. I will definately be re-reading this post and hope some other MTT vets might have something to add.

I've given up thinking that MTT's require luck (Except for "Teecoy" on PS, damn that guys good). One question I want to ask you is how long you've been playing MTT's (not questioning your skills, just curious)?

[dutchfan]

BEFORE I READ THIS:

want is mtt? lol

[mike4066]

thanks michael.
hope to see you in the big ones one day.

[michael1123]

MTT = Multitable tournament

I've been playing MTTs since I've been playing Holdem, which is going on a year now. Plus a ton of freerolls when my bankroll was non-existent, which gives you MTT experience against large fields, but doesn't give you experience playing against too many good players. It does teach discipline though.

I've been playing MTTs religiously for the past couple weeks on Poker Stars. Religiously as in, its been the only form of poker I've been playing, unless there isn't a good MTT going.

The two table SNGs on Poker Stars give you a bit of MTT type experience as well, and the turbos teach aggression, which is needed in the later rounds of MTTs.

[Fnord]

You're one of my heros man.

[michael1123]

You're one of my heros man.

... Is that sarcastic? I'm not use to seeing posts like that from you, Fnord. I see you replied, and I'm expecting to see my strategy ripped to shreads.

[Fnord]

... Is that sarcastic? I'm not use to seeing posts like that from you, Fnord. I see you replied, and I'm expecting to see my strategy ripped to shreads.

Nope. It's one of the best posts ever made on this board and I don't have enough experience in the format to argue any fine points.

I don't shit on posts for a quick rush. I do so to provoke debate that strengthens everyone's game. If you think I'm critical of some of the posts here, I'm harder on myself when I review my own hands in Poker Tracker. I could post some real gems...

[michael1123]

Haha. Well then, thanks Fnord. Its quite the complement.

[Legendash]

I agree, this is a fantastic post and i'm going to start playing cheap MTT's to see if i can improve my play, i've got in the money in freerolls before, 10th out of 682 is my best for a mighty 15 bucks so i'll see if i can build on that.

Cheers micheal, keep up the good work.

[heatman]

Michael, its no wonder you're winning these things. Your strategy sounds solid, and it takes an awesome understanding of it to put a great post like that together.

Congrats man, keep it up.

[Humphrind]

"Learn to play like a pro. Hear the ins and outs of how to win major tournaments. Only $10 a copy, get 'em while they're hot. You too could make over $10,000 per week, for the low investment of $10... errr... $50!"

Great post, I'll use it well.

[DrNoChance]

1.) "If a bluff doesn't work, don't bluff at a pot again." This is a myth!

2.) Keep your preflop raises consistent. Once the blinds get big, I love raising 2.5xBB.

1.) This is something I need work on. I seldom back up flop bluffs with turn bluffs, and when I do the timing is poor and I lose most of my stack. Experience will improve my timing/reads on this I suppose.

2.) I thought I was like the only person who loved raising 2.5X BB when the blinds get big! I agree that this amount works very well in my SnG experiences, and I'm sure in MTTs as well.

[dutchfan]

What is MTT?

I am just guessing, Multi-table tournament?

[AvatarKava]

What is MTT?

I am just guessing, Multi-table tournament?

Yes. He answered you earlier in the thread

[FyrFytr998]

Great post Michael. I'll be sure to keep some of your points in mind during the FTR league,lol.


Off topic, but does FTR pay you? They should give you like a contributing editor position. You're like averaging 11 posts a day,lol. And you joined after I did. You should show something for the effort. :P

[dutchfan]

What is MTT?

I am just guessing, Multi-table tournament?

Yes. He answered you earlier in the thread

Oh, haah, sorry, i scrolled down the whole page looking and didn't see it. Then i realized the topic was about a poker tournament, and i took a shot. Anyways, thanks, I best get to reading!

[michael1123]

"Learn to play like a pro. Hear the ins and outs of how to win major tournaments. Only $10 a copy, get 'em while they're hot. You too could make over $10,000 per week, for the low investment of $10... errr... $50!"

Hahaha, you made me spit my cereal out. Thanks, Humph.

[Fnord]

2.) I thought I was like the only person who loved raising 2.5X BB when the blinds get big! I agree that this amount works very well in my SnG experiences, and I'm sure in MTTs as well.

Fossilman says this too, although the number he gave was 2.7, less if you can get away with it.

BTW, I was doing this in the last 2 FTR showdowns and got some interesting comments...

[mike4066]

I used to use 3x. After reading this I switched to 2.5 and I have the exact same results.
Thanks

[DrNoChance]

I don't do this, but I often see minimum raises do the job (once blinds are a decent size) if they are made from UTG because of the extra respect an UTG raise receives.

[!Luck]

I used to play the free rolls at vegas but they have all disappeared can you recomend some sites that have free rolls? Thank you.

[chanman83]

I used to play the free rolls at vegas but they have all disappeared can you recomend some sites that have free rolls? Thank you.

free rolls like online?? UB has a ton, party sometimes.. stars SUCKS for free rolls...

[Legendash]

gaming club et al (all the prima skins) have pretty good freerolls but the blinds suck so you won't be able to use all your new micheal powers in them as most of the time you've got to fold or push.

[johnnyawe]

Nice strat.

I'm also a 2.5xBB raiser. I think it gets way more respect than a min raise.

The topic of continuing a bluff through the turn and river is intriguing and something I have struggled with. Whenever I do it successfully, I give myself a huge pat on the back. Whenever it doesn't work, I vow never to do it again.

[SteveO]

Mike do you have similar success in freezouts without R&A's? I shy away from the R&A's because I am cheap I guess. I also can't stand the first hour when everyone is in gamble mode. It just gets silly. I have made a few final tables but not BIG scores on MTT's. If I get my hands on some chips I can stick around a long time. However, I usually end up with nothing more than an average stack and after the second or third break it is nothing but AI or fold. The MTT's seem to turn into repeated coin flips in later rounds. If you win the coinflips you are golden, if not, I'm on the rail.

I can't tell you how many times I have taken a huge hit when JJ, QQ or KK goes down in flames to a weak Ace. The other problem I find online is people make the worst/loosest calls ever ie. people play K10, A9 like they were gold which makes it dangerous to bluff often.

I love MTT's. I think they are the most exciting when you get into the later rounds and every single hand can make or break you. I just can't seem to make a lot of money yet.

Your post is well written and very similar to my style. I just have not hit it big yet.

[michael1123]

Mike do you have similar success in freezouts without R&A's?

I've had some, but not any huge wins, largely because the payouts are always much smaller, unless there's many more people or a higher buyin. I made it far into a $100 freezeout last night, and got a bad beat to knock me out 5th for $1,300. First place was $6k, and I would've had a good opportunity to win that had the QQ not been busted.

I shy away from the R&A's because I am cheap I guess. I also can't stand the first hour when everyone is in gamble mode. It just gets silly.

Yeah, they can be annoying, especially when you're getting bad beats. That's why I like to think of the rebuy period as a seperate silly tourney, that's only purpose is to determine how many chips you'll have for the rest of the tourney.

The MTT's seem to turn into repeated coin flips in later rounds. If you win the coinflips you are golden, if not, I'm on the rail.

There is definitely some of that, but that's why you need to earn a big stack while you can. As a big stack, you won't be forced into any coinflips. You can weigh your options and the potential risk and reward, and choose when to call the small stacks on their all ins.

I can't tell you how many times I have taken a huge hit when JJ, QQ or KK goes down in flames to a weak Ace. The other problem I find online is people make the worst/loosest calls ever ie. people play K10, A9 like they were gold which makes it dangerous to bluff often.

Not so much in the higher buyin ones, at least on Poker Stars. I usually find under $30 buyins to be pretty fishy, and over $30 to be pretty solid. There's some exceptions on both sides, but typicially this seems to be the case.

[fishstick]

really nice post, michael!

it's enough to make me want to play more MTT's.

you've been cleaning up the last couple of weeks - can i borrow $20 bucks?

[Radashack]

Hi All,

Great post Michael, havn't seen you around much, you still play on stars?

[elanto]

Great Post Micheal, you mentioned earlier that you used to play freerolls because you didnt have a big enough bankroll, well how well did you dso on those freerolls, because the best Ive been able to do was 50/6k in the gaming club and 1/450 in pokerchamps(twice but for 4 dollars each time), still havent been able to get ITM for big bucks, any suggestion (sites strategies, etc... )


-anto

[Xianti]

Be willing to see cheap flops with all hands that have potential, like small pocket pairs and suited connectors and one gappers. Maybe even call some 3x BB bets (or preferably less) when the blinds are very small, with hands like this, hoping to hit a big flop, where you may be able to take someones stack. As strange as it may seem, if you put a guy on a very strong hand like AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, or AQ, its better to call with these hands than with other strong hands like AQ, AJ, KQ, etc. Be especially more willing to call these bets with these hands if many other people call in front of you, as you're really just calling based on implied odds. More people in the pot is better for you.

But, on the flip side of the coin, be tight when it comes to calling big bets. If you think you're beat, fold. You need to have a steady increase to your stack in MTTs, so you need to avoid as many big losses as you can.

Don't bluff or blind steal much in the early rounds. Until the BB gets to 150-200, blind stealing isn't all that profitable, and is just increasing your risk. But, against tight players in the blinds, its still a good idea to throw out 3x BB in late position after its folded around to you, with an ok hand (KTo, 22, A2s, etc.). The reason being, even if they call, you can likely bluff them out on the flop, picking up even more than the blinds

So with cheap rounds calling with 9/7o 8/6o like limping in is ok w/ blinds in the area and non higher than 50/100? Calling or limping in with these hands need to have a good post flop game? Or check/fold if nothing hits?

Glad I found this about early on in MTTs I seem to be the low stack since I play foldem holdem early. Until I hit a hand and get a stack.

Thanks and hope these questions are answered.

[Corey]

Thanks Xianti;

I apologize didnt realize the discussion was same as the topic name.

That quote talks about early on in MTTs to get a chip stack.

Thanks

[michael1123]

Yeah, I think its fine to limp with hands like that in late position, especially if there's a lot of limpers in front of you.

I try to see as many cheap flops as possible on the first few rounds when I have hands with decent potential (especially in a rebuy, where it may be advisable to see nearly every cheap flop you can, since you know if you hit you're more likely to be paid off).

[stever35]

I've been playing for two years and am a solid, (not great) NL ring game player. I've tried a few MTT, doing ok my best place finish was around 15th out of 1500 or so.

I read your MTT yesterday and entered the PP $5 plus rebuys today with 1100 or so players, I made it out of the first hour with 10,500 chips and scored third place, for $1684.80. This is despite making three stupid mistakes along the way that cost me a fair few chips.

Mucho gracias

[michael1123]

Congrats. Glad it could be of some help.

[a500lbgorilla]

thanks to this strat I was able to fold into the money in a 200 person 5 dollar tourny. This feat allowed me to win the FTR Poster of the Year award for MTT accomplishments. Thanks, michael!

-'rilla

[poker n00b]

i'm trying out a live $25 MTT tonight. we'll see how that goes. thanks for the advice. i'm gonna need it

[pokerjfb]

Most mmt i play i usually bust out because i miss the transistion to the mid to late stages from the early stages. In tournys that I have gone deep I am usually tightening up to 2.5 raises and making it a game of blind stealing before everyone else has. This often hurts because it hinders my ability to increase my stack as people are more loose in this early stage. My question is in relation to the M of the starting stack what would you say this transition happens. For example would you say that when the blinds are 50 100 and the starting stack is 1500 meaning you would have an m of10 with the starting stack is this to early? Must you wait till the blinds are 75 150? or 100 200?

Great post BTW I am also new hopefully I didnt ask something that has already been asked.

I apoligize for writing this in the main board i didnt see the dont post here sorry im new.

~JFB
I lost my bankroll with a straight flush[/quote]

[chardrian]

I don't understand your question.

[pokerjfb]

well i guess my question is really in say a pokerstars poker tournament with 1500 starting chips when would you say to stray from an early tournament strategy and start playing in a mid to late style. you mention the mid-late style of the tournament has a lot of big stacks taking turns stealing the blinds. When do you say that the tournament switches gears according to blind level. Would you say 50 100? 75 150, 100 200?


~JFB

[chardrian]

I think way too much depends on the number of entrants in a tourney and the rate the blinds increase to give even a general answer as to when you can get away with the 2.5xBB raise rather than the 3-4xBB raise.

[lolzzz_321]

[Quillspirit]

I used to play the free rolls at vegas but they have all disappeared can you recomend some sites that have free rolls? Thank you.

Poker Pages has them every hour, for Player Points... can work your way up and buy into $ MTT's with them.

[DRL453]

EXCELLENT post! Thanks a lot. Mike do you have the same handle at pokerstars? I'd like to watch you play sometime if you don't mind! Also, do you take notes on your opponents during the mtts?

[Sprayed]

EXCELLENT post! Thanks a lot. Mike do you have the same handle at pokerstars? I'd like to watch you play sometime if you don't mind! Also, do you take notes on your opponents during the mtts?

Yes, he has the same same.

[DRL453]

Does he ever play?? I have yet to see him.

[supermoneyz1]

I've noticed that at the flop when the blinds are big, after I've preflop raised, I don't even consider if I've hit the flop or not. I typically fire out a bet that is about the size of the pot no matter whether I hit it or not. Sometimes I don't even care if I hit it or not! If you're playing against good players, they typically will lay a hand down to a solid bet if they think they're beat and don't have a good draw.

Wrong….It is important to evaluate the texture of the flop in relation to your opponents possible holding’s... In some situations continuation bets can be unnecessary. Once blinds are high, you don’t want to invest a great portion of you’re stack on a continuation bet especially if the flop most likely helped your opponent…Also, a pot sized bet is unnecessary. A ½ - ¾ pot bet will accomplish the same task, while saving chips if you decide to dump the hand…

The later in a tournament you are, the more it becomes a game of taking turns stealing blinds among the big stacks.

The statement “taking turns stealing blinds” is poorly worded. If people know you’re blatantly stealing the blinds, people would loosen up their calling range and often push over you, leaving yourself with a tough decision. Many of my chips deep in tournaments come from players who commonly 3x in LP because they feel entitled to steal. The statement suggests that there is a pattern upon stealing the blinds which is completely wrong.

[coozhound]

thanks for the advice miachal1123 my boss got me in to poker when i seen he was making more than my pay at online poker he gave me the basics 11 buy in with rebuys didn't have a clue what the hell he was talking about but after reading your post have a understanding of it all and a good sound strategy that i will use part of because i know to watch what i say on here but for now i just like to play donky kick ball and donky kick them in there balls and every now and then i put what I read to the test so will be putting yours to the test real soon because those rb/ao sure sound alot like free roll tourny once again michael thanks

[Sabr1988]

Very interesting reading Michael. Over the last week i really lost motivation because i dont have the patience to get to the money even. I dont know why, but sometimes i can play real good and focus without any doubt to play a hand or not, and sometimes i loose alot of hands and ending getting badbeat when ai with shortstack.
But after reading this post, wich have some really good advices, but also something ive tried a couple of times before, i really got motivated to play again, and without any doubt if i can make it or not.
So tomorrow i will deposit 20$ and try to play some cashgame and a couple of mtt's and try to build a solid bankroll so that i can start playing some mtt's with a 5$+ buyin.

Thanks for your advices and for giving me motivation again.

[Sabr1988]

Ohh one more thing, I'm not that good at english and i dont know what limp or limp in means, also UTG, i really cant figure out exactly what those words means, hope someone will help me explain then. Thanks.

[GatorJH]

limp means that you call the BB without raising and UTG stands for "Under The Gun", which is the first person to act pre-flop.

[Extremophile]

By the way I watched Katja Thater playing an MTT last night. She was the chipleader at FT and she always opened 4x. Any comments on this?