limped pot, bb goes all in on the turn

[Extremophile]

Sorry, still no stats; I am trying to figure out how to track live with Holdem Manager. The play of the BB is mainly push or fold preflop, even with 60-80bb.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t2205)
Hero (Button) (t5465)
SB (t2525)
BB (t2488)
UTG (t2071)
MP1 (t1665)
MP2 (t1915)

Hero's M: 24.29

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5, 5
1 fold, MP1 calls t150, 2 folds, Hero calls t150, SB calls t75, BB checks

Flop: (t600) 3, A, 5 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets t600, 1 fold, Hero calls t600, 1 fold

Turn: (t1800) 2 (2 players)
BB bets t1738 (All-In)


Hero?


.

[taipan168]

Easiest call ever on the turn. Fist pump insta WOO HOO call!

If the flop was more drawy I would just put him all in on the flop.

[fulksy]

insta call, i doub't the bb blind bets 600 with a 4x hand on the flop, your so far ahead of his range its an easy call especially at 1.00 games

[drmcboy]

I'd snap call with AQ

but, fold pre, no one has enough chips for you to set hunt and if the blinds raise you also have to fold. With these stack sizes I would not limp anything except maybe AA, but not at this table

[Extremophile]

but, fold pre, no one has enough chips for you to set hunt and if the blinds raise you also have to fold. With these stack sizes I would not limp anything except maybe AA, but not at this table

I don't like limping in at early position but, after MP1 limped in, I thought he may represent a good hand and may prevent some action from the blinds. Also, it is more difficult to get 2 limpers out of the pot.

[Fielmann]

but, fold pre, no one has enough chips for you to set hunt and if the blinds raise you also have to fold. With these stack sizes I would not limp anything except maybe AA, but not at this table

I would think calling is almost break-even. There will be two or three opponents (as long as the blinds won't raise, of course), which increases the chance of getting paid, which means you can limp with slightly smaller effective stacks.

[drmcboy]

give some ranges for the MP1 limp and the blinds' raising ranges. Also don't say things like "assuming the blinds don't raise". If you get to say the blinds never raise, I get to say they never stack off without TPGK and MP1's range is all overcards.

[Fielmann]

I apologize if my point was unclear. I didn't say that the blinds never raise. I said that if the blinds don't raise, then we will have two or three opponents instead of one. Since there is no reason to believe, that the blinds will raise more often than they would if there was no limper (in fact, as OP pointed out, the will probably raise less often), we can conclude, that we have a bigger than usual chance of having two or three opponents instead of one. This conclusion remains, regardless of the blinds' raising ranges.

This is not to say, that the opponents' (raising) ranges have no effect on whether we should fold or call. Of course they do. It's just that in this case we don't know much anything about opponents' ranges, which means that we should assume that they are average. But we do know that the number of opponents will, in the long run, turn out to be greater than average .

In short: since the predicted number of opponents implies that we can call with a slightly smaller effective stack, and the predicted ranges don't imply anything, we can call with a slightly smaller effective stack. Hence my statement that calling is probably not that big a mistake.

On a separate note: One would think that in this situation the opponents' ranges are less important than they normally are, because if blinds raise light (which is bad), they are also more likely to pay us off when we hit (which is good). Right or wrong?

[drmcboy]

if they raise light, we don't get to hit. that's the problem, you're hoping they play tight pre flop, but then looser on the flop. that may be the case but there isn't any reason to think so.

Given the stack sizes once I saw an open limp I would be waiting for someone to shove. There is a lot of dead money. That's really why I don't like the limp. I would shove something at least this -

66+,A5s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs+,A9o+,KTo+,QTo+

which is like 18% Probably closer to 25% depending on what I thought of MP. Even if the other blind is 10% that's > 1/4 times you don't see the flop.

[Extremophile]

Wow you have Q10o in your shoving range! Are we getting the right price? We also don't know what SB and BB are holding either. I have never thought I could shove with Q10o in this kind of situation. I mean if someone calls, it is almost half my stack and I will probably be behind.