Crossfire of Donks

[Extremophile]

Sorry, I can't give you any stats but I can tell you that these guys have no ranges or whatsoever.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00+$0.20 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) (t2815)
BB (t5145)
UTG (t7270)
UTG+1 (t3485)
MP1 (t2890)
MP2 (t11385)
MP3 (t2845)
CO (t4320)
Button (t5595)

Hero's M: 37.53

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t50, 2 folds, MP3 calls t50, 1 fold, Button calls t50, Hero bets t350, 2 folds, MP3 calls t300, Button calls t300

Flop: (t1150) K, 9, 4 (3 players)
Hero bets t750, MP3 raises to t2495 (All-In), Button raises to t4240,

Hero?



.

[baudib]

call. I'd fistpumpsnap this off with KQ let alone AA. You even have a backdoor nut draw.

[drmcboy]

I'm pretty comfortable saying anytime you have an over pair and you have a 2/1 or better price and you will be all in you should never ever fold

[baudib]

that's interesting

[Extremophile]

What do you think the guy who reraised has? It is really scary to me. So, I folded...

These guys really like to cooparate each other whenever you make a raise. The point is to give you a bad beat and they don't care they will lose chips. Sometimes, I hate my level since the people who play it has no logic. I will try to improve anyways.

[nUFamn]

These guys really like to cooparate each other whenever you make a raise. The point is to give you a bad beat and they don't care they will lose chips. Sometimes, I hate my level since the people who play it has no logic. I will try to improve anyways.

I don't think they're cooperating to give you a bad beat; they're just playing their cards. And the fact that they're playing it with no logic is the fact that makes the small levels possible. Variance is kinda sick, but by playing real hands vs. their random trash over time, you're crushing them.

You might run into a solid player with a set in this spot, but I think it's more likely that you have them crushed at this point. If your AA gets cracked here, GG, load up another and try again.

[drmcboy]

These guys really like to cooparate each other whenever you make a raise. The point is to give you a bad beat and they don't care they will lose chips. Sometimes, I hate my level since the people who play it has no logic. I will try to improve anyways.

read elements of poker or the poker mindset , this a horrible way to think. I guarantee stopping this thought process will improve your game more than anything else you can do at this point in your development.

option 2 is don't play poker. It isn't for everyone/most people.

MTTs are an extremely hard way to start out your career.

[mcatdog]

Sometimes, I hate my level since the people who play it has no logic.

Neither do you if you folded this hand.

The fact that people aren't playing logically is a reason why they can have tons of stupid hands here so you should never fold your AA.

[Extremophile]

Sometimes, I hate my level since the people who play it has no logic.

Neither do you if you folded this hand.

The fact that people aren't playing logically is a reason why they can have tons of stupid hands here so you should never fold your AA.

Thank you for your comments. I know I belong to this level because I folded this hand. And, I know the existance of these donks will be the source of my profit, and I should be happy instead. But as naufamn mentioned, varience is sick, which hits a lot. Thanks for 2/1 info.

[drmcboy]

Also work on releasing the idea that bad players are harder to beat since they always call. When you get more money in more often farther ahead, your results will be better and have less variance. When people make folds and play tricky, the reverse will happen.

[nUFamn]

Yea, with AA there's always a chance you're getting it in when you're dominated (someone caught a set or two pair), but in a $2.50 tournament I would much rather stack off with AA than get it all in with AK vs TT three levels down the road. Getting it in with AA gives you a really good shot to start building your stack.

Also, if my advice runs opposite to drmc, I will personally take his instead. I advise you to do the same

[revolvingiris]

I can tell you that these guys have no ranges or whatsoever.

fwiw they both have ranges and it is important for you to think about what they are before you call your tourney life. The problem with posting hands minus any reads/stats is that yes, you should call this "generally".

However, if for example the button only does this with two pair or better. This call quickly turns into a snap fold.

Ranges change on every street and someone who calls your pf raise with 94o went from dominated to dominating. You need to think about these spots to keep yourself from turning into one of those "my Acezz was kraccked by sum dippshitt choo cannt think pf so I pusccchheed thee flop-n-got calledz by tOO pair!!".

[drmcboy]

run poker stove, coming back I doubt it's a fold vs two pair

[Deuce Blue]

Didn't you see what these guys had? I mean it went to showdown right??

[drmcboy]

MP3 raises to t2495 (All-In), Button raises to t4240,

I mean it went to showdown right??

yes

Didn't you see what these guys had?

please don't encourage OP to be results oriented on top of everything else. If they both had middle pair or they both had sets the fold is bad. He can and will of course use results to begin forming generic player reads but it's clear from OP he isn't there yet so let's not worry about what they had.

[Deuce Blue]

MP3 raises to t2495 (All-In), Button raises to t4240,

I mean it went to showdown right??

yes

Didn't you see what these guys had?

please don't encourage OP to be results oriented on top of everything else. If they both had middle pair or they both had sets the fold is bad. He can and will of course use results to begin forming generic player reads but it's clear from OP he isn't there yet so let's not worry about what they had.

Understood. But, the lesson seems to have been taught by numerous people. I think there may be something to learn from showing what they actually were holding regardless of what the actual result was. If nothing else to reinforce the lesson.

[Extremophile]

1) I ran pokerstove for two pair:

Kc9h 71%
AcAd 29%

So I am 7 to 3 underdog. I need to put 1100 something into a pot of 6800 something. So, it is indeed a profitable call.


2) I also included the other guy. I put him QcJc with flush and GS str8 draws

Kc9h 45 %
QcJc 36 %
AcAd 19%

Even in this case I am 4 to 1 underdog, and it is still a profitable call.


3) There comes even more interesting scenario. I put the 3rd guy a set:

Kc 9h 17%
4h4s 70%
AcAd 13%

In this case I am 6.6/1 underdog which is almost the same ratio for 6800/1100.





OK guys, I know you wrote it many times somewhere else but can you tell me once again which software you use to collect the stats in MTTs, the meaning of x/y/z for the software you suggest, and how I can extract x,y,z 's from the software? I there a free software or would you suggest a better software with a decent price. Thank you!

[Extremophile]

Sorry, ı realized I made a mistake in my calculations. I have 1700 left instead of 1100. So i am getting 6800/1700= 4/1. So, it is still profitable for the first two cases but not for the last 1 which is against a set. However, considering the porbability of flopping a set, I understand why i get 2/1 with overpair.

[Extremophile]

I'm pretty comfortable saying anytime you have an over pair and you have a 2/1 or better price and you will be all in you should never ever fold

SWEET!!


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t4650)
SB (t1380)
BB (t1650)
Hero (UTG) (t1500)
UTG+1 (t4290)
MP1 (t1400)
MP2 (t720)
CO (t890)

Hero's M: 50.00

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10, 10
Hero bets t60, 1 fold, MP1 calls t60, 1 fold, CO calls t60, Button calls t60, 1 fold, BB calls t40

Flop: (t310) 2, 7, 3 (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t200, MP1 calls t200, CO raises to t500, 1 fold, BB raises to t840, Hero raises to t1440 (All-In), 1 fold, CO calls t330 (All-In), BB calls t600

Turn: (t4220) 5 (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t4220) 2 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t4220

Results:
BB had J, 7 (two pair, sevens and twos).
Hero had 10, 10 (two pair, tens and twos).
CO had K, 7 (two pair, sevens and twos).
Outcome: Hero won t4220