good shove utg or wait?

[Roco415]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $3.00+$0.40 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t3420)
Button (t7840)
SB (t1145)
BB (t1490)
Hero (UTG) (t1325)
UTG+1 (t1455)
MP1 (t6485)
MP2 (t3840)

Hero's M: 5.89

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5, 5
Hero bets t1325 (All-In), 4 folds, Button calls t1325, 2 folds

Flop: (t2875) Q, 6, 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2875) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2875) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t2875

[Extremophile]

How many people left? What is the payout structure?

[taipan168]

With the table still 8-handed, I'd wait. I'd look to shove 77+, ATs+, AJo in this spot.

[Roco415]

why just A10s+ as opposed to 55+? it seems intuitive that the pair requirement would be lower? or im just totally confused?

[drmcboy]

my chart says 66+ for 6M and 55+ for 5M so it's really close.

what do you mean by lower?

[geno9]

depends on how many left/payout structure but i think i fold here and go one more orbit and look for a better spot .. you're only getting called here by a bigger pair or at best AK, maybe AQ

[Roco415]

hey cut, i meant lower in terms of req for shoving...

also, which chart do you use, i think my push fold needs some work..lol

[drmcboy]

they are in kill everyone.

I'm saying what makes AT 'lower' than 55?

[Jadiel]

You weren't even short stack.

I avoid the most pushing at UTG without over pairs. Independing of the chart. In this case, with a low pair oop, i just call or fold.

Of course, it's a tight move.

[Roco415]

nice, just ordered kill everyone with FPPS

[drmcboy]

good buy for sure

[taipan168]

good buy for sure

Agree, it's a good read.

If you're playing SNGs seriously you should definitely download SNG Wiz. It suggests a slightly tighter range than the Kill Everyone tables because it takes into account the chance that somebody in front of you shoves and busts out (or gets crippled) thereby slightly increasing the equity you have if you fold.

[drmcboy]

OTOH we should shove wider if people are calling tighter which they should be in SNGs vs MTTs although that may not be true at the 3s. also we lose some FE to the blinds. do you feel a five?

[bjsaust]

55 is dominated by most PPs and flipping with almost everything else, whereas ATs will dominate a lot of AX hands, be a favorite against all other non-paired hands, and in OK shape against all pairs except AA.

[drmcboy]

vs top 15

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,054,764,800 games 2.328 secs 882,630,927 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.302% 44.02% 00.28% 895530258 5663301.00 { 55 }
Hand 1: 55.698% 55.42% 00.28% 1127360292 5663301.00 { 77+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }


---

1,136,969,856 games 1.719 secs 661,413,528 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.414% 45.84% 03.57% 516469374 40277411.00 { ATs }
Hand 1: 50.586% 47.01% 03.57% 529671836 40277411.00 { 77+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }


---

[Roco415]

point taken...def need to reassess my push/fold and equity knowledge

[Extremophile]

What happens if all the people at the table have SNGwiz?

[mcatdog]

OTOH we should shove wider if people are calling tighter which they should be in SNGs vs MTTs

Is this really true, aren't there plenty of spots where ICM affects both of us, they should be calling tighter but we should be shoving tighter anyway?

[Raoni_Poker]

I'd shove here without thinking too much...
The blinds are 150 and I'm the BB on the next hand...
Asides from that, the blinds might increase soon. The hands to worry about are 66+. Unpaired hands are coinflip situations and we could have some fold equity.

[taipan168]

I'd shove here without thinking too much...
The blinds are 150 and I'm the BB on the next hand...

...and there are also 7 players who have to fold before you take the blinds down without a fight...

[drmcboy]

OTOH we should shove wider if people are calling tighter which they should be in SNGs vs MTTs

Is this really true, aren't there plenty of spots where ICM affects both of us, they should be calling tighter but we should be shoving tighter anyway?

hey when it comes to SNGs i'd believe anything. Where would the equity go? The BB i guess?

[Raoni_Poker]

With the table still 8-handed, I'd wait. I'd look to shove 77+, ATs+, AJo in this spot.

The point is...shoving 77 in this spot as you suggested is pretty much equivalent to shoving 55 (considering a calling range of top 15%).

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.849% 45.38% 00.47% 899727888 9388428.00 { 77 }
Hand 1: 54.151% 53.68% 00.47% 1064343288 9388428.00 { 77+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.381% 44.10% 00.28% 906209160 5720946.00 { 55 }
Hand 1: 55.619% 55.34% 00.28% 1137113748 5720946.00 { 77+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }

[taipan168]

How many people left? What is the payout structure?

We've all been answering this question without this key piece of information. I can't figure out the tourney structure from the stack sizes.

[Roco415]

8 handed, 27 man person sng final table...5 paid

[Extremophile]

If it was 7 paid/45 we could wait but now i guess we should shove, otherwise, after sending the blinds, even if we double up, we will still be short.

[RoundThemUPjoe]

I think pushing with 55 UTG with 7 people behind is a bad move,to many people that can call with a wide range and beat you. Change your postion to button or SB with folds behind you and I say push. UTG I'd wait for at least 10,10 or AJ
even if blinds go up you still have over 1000 chips on the button and can push with ATC and still have a 33 % chance of winning even if the caller has two overs