Building a bankroll through multi-table SNG's?

[matt276]

Hey everyone, just registered for this great site. Nice to meet all of you

I want to know, is it reasonable to build a bankroll by playing multi-table SNG's? There are lots of good articles out there about building a bankroll by playing micro-stakes limit games and taking advantage of every possible bonus offer, but I find multi-table tournaments much more exciting, specifically 3-5 table SNG's. There just doesn't seem to be any good articles out there about building a bankroll by playing multi-table tournaments.

I do see the problems with this. For one, variance in MTT's is high, so I'd have to play relatively small buy-ins. Another issue, which is more concerning to me, is that the bonuses all have FPP requirements that seem ridiculously hard to meet by playing tournaments. Maybe it's just because I'm looking at very small-stakes tournaments, but it seems like I'd have to play a lot more than I want to to actually get these bonuses.

So, assuming that building a bankroll this way is possible, what's the best way to do it? I want to take advantage of the free money out there in the form of first-deposit bonuses, but I don't know how I should do this when I'm going to be playing tournaments. Also, what's a good number of buy-ins to have in my bankroll for playing 3-5 table tournaments? I've seen numbers anywhere from 30 buy-ins to 100.

My current bankroll is $20, since I've been playing PS's 45-player $0.25 buy-ins really just for fun, but I'd be willing to deposit up to about $100. I also don't want to play more than a few hours a day. So, with my current situation, what stakes and sites should I be playing, and how can I take advantage of bonuses? If there's an amount of money I need before I can start taking advantage of bonuses, what is it?

Thanks, and sorry for the long post.

[Qminator]

Hi there and welcome to the community!

Building a BR playing MTT's and MTSNG's is certainly possible. I started out playing MS cash games a few months ago but just didn't like the slow action. I switched to MS MTSNG on pokerstars. First the 0,25c 90 and 0,25c 45 SNG's. These are very fishy and you'll be crushing them in no time. When i had the BR i tried the 1.20$ 27 and 45 SNG's. Collected enough FPP's to unlock my bonus. I'm still playing these, building my BR.

Concerning the FPP's: Collecting FPP in micro cash games is even harder. ( PStars offers 5 FPP/ $ rake in tournaments ) If you play 25 cent 45's without rake you aren't going to get much fpp's.

[dontezuma]

On bankroll... you may choose to try the $2.20 and $3.40 games, as the rake % is lower. If necessary for BR purposes, you could go to a place like Part Time Poker and apply for staking. If you can put in the $100, do so. That will roll you enough for the $3.40's (30X buyin). Some will say you need 100X buy-in, and that's true for the long term. Sticking to the $2.20's would be safer, and they're 180s rather than 360s, so the variance will be lower, too. A win is about $100, IIRC, so that's nice.

I've used everything from DONs to STTs to smaller MTTs to add to the roll and the MTTs provide the best chance for a nice pop if you hit the top 3 in one. I won a $12 180 for my biggest personal cash at $594 in May, which was great. It allowed me to cash out every dime I had put in to PS and still have a workable bankroll.

So, FWIW, yes, you can use them to grind up, but beware, you need to play very good poker in these to cash. You need to know push-fold for when the blinds get up high, and for God's sake, limit your stone-cold bluffing to very specific "I'm positive he can't call this down" reads. Most players at those levels are donkified badge-wearing calling stations who will call with third pair, no kicker. Or Ace high. Play for value on most hands.

When the blinds leave you with 13-15BB or less, it's aggressive time. Shove light, call tight. Don't ever ever ever let me catch you calling an all-in with A2 "because it's an ace and I figured he had KJ". I will personally come kick your ass.

[Im_new]

When the blinds leave you with 13-15BB or less, it's aggressive time. Shove light, call tight. Don't ever ever ever let me catch you calling an all-in with A2 "because it's an ace and I figured he had KJ". I will personally come kick your ass.

There are plenty of situations where calling with A2 is +ev, fwiw.

[bbertbbert]

After a period of well playing at pokerstars I played at the higher limit tables (0,50/1)... A little too much for my bankroll ($1200 = smaller than 2000 times the bigblind (general bankrollmanagement rule)).... I got bankrupt and started with 30 dollars again... I played 1,10 turbo 45 games at pokerstars... I a month I reached $200 dols... I am now twoo weeks further at the 0,10/0,25 tables and I am on $440... (again the limits possibly a bit too high for my bankroll, but hey.....)

[drmcboy]

A little too much for my bankroll ....
I got bankrupt...

(again the limits possibly a bit too high for my bankroll, but hey.....)

bankroll management

Moving down is harder than moving up but if you can't do it, poker is not for you.

[Luco]

err, the 2000BB rule is for limit holdem?

[Poker Orifice]

FWIW I don't think it takes too long to clear the initial deposit bonus on Pokerstars even by just playing micro sng's ($1-$3).
Whatever you enjoy/like, etc. playing is most likely where you will take the time to learn..... so if it's 45plyr. sng's,.. then go for it.

I would recommend trying to stick to one particular game so that you become familiar with it (ie. if it's 9-plyr. sng's... stick with them and learn the ins & outs.... don't jump around from 45's to 9's, 18's etc..... just my opinion).

There's a good article on playing the 45's on FTR posted by mcat.
NOt sure where it is.... but here's a portion of it copied here
you gain equity just by sitting on your stack and letting the donks go at it, but in MTTs this isn't the case, you need to accumulate chips. Just playing like a huge nit until you're in shove-or-fold mode, is not going to work out that well for you. I think you have the wrong idea about how to loosen up though. If you find a great spot to see a flop with a speculative hand then that's nice but that's not your goal. The goal is to play more aggressively in position. For example on level 1 or 2 if you're folded to in the CO with QJo, this is a standard fold 9-handed because the chips you stand to gain aren't worth the risk, but in a MTT this is a great spot to pick up chips. If everyone folds that's fine, if one of the blinds calls that's also fine because you're playing a pot in position with a decent hand vs. someone you're probably better than

You should consider that at these buy-ins, the players will call shoves more often. Sometimes their calls are correct and they don't even know it. But, this means that you have to be more selective. My standard is to be a little more selective with my shoving range when there are no antes and I have a 10bb stack or the blinds have a 10bb stack. When the antes kick in, you can widen your shoving range because it is more profitable to do so. The farther you fall below 10bbs, the wider you have to shove from any position when folded to. Obviously, when your stack gets to a point to where you are <5bbs, it is profitable for the bb to call with ATC

TO add my two cents here.... when your stack size falls to between 15-20 bb's (approx.), look to make resteals (if possible), especially if you're not able to fina many oppurtunities for stealling the blinds. At the lower levels you will find ALOT of players limping in on high blinds.... don't become one of them. If you've got a good hand and want to raise it up preflop to a few limpers, res 3-4bb +1bb for each limper (maybe even more)... OR.. if there's approx. 1/4 to 1/3 of your stack now in the pot, just shove it in.
You can't let yourself blind down in these.

Lastly... Good Luck and try to enjoy the process/journey.
If the 45's aren't working out for ya, perhaps try to specialize in the 9-plyr. sng's. There's tons of info. out there on how to perfect your 9-plyr. Sng game (Collin Moshmann's book is an excellent place to start as you'll be way ahead of the majority of the field if you read his book).

[Renton]

its really not

you need at least four figures to play mtts imo

best way to build a bankroll is micro cash, by far. I wouldn't touch mtts until you are up to 50nl or 100nl.

[revolvingiris]

Its pretty possible to build a br by MTTSNG but I would not recommend it. I would say focus on single table SnGs (STT) till you have a 100x br for the 2.2 MTTSNG.

[Roller]

"I also don't want to play more than a few hours a day."

Welcome to FTR.

I think if you are going to put a limited amount of time in Holdem then MTT's may be an issue.
I would suggest not attempting to build a bankroll by playing MTT SNG's.

Instead you should play STT SNG's.

Good Luck

[Poker Orifice]

I don't know if I could agree to above here ^^ (sticking to only STT). Just recently I've begun to check out playing the 45's myself and have found them to be a potential for building the bankroll and have heard from others who consider playing the 45's as their 'bread & butter' for their accounts.

Checking out the competition on the tables I've found that there are quite a few regs. in them (micros up to $26buyin) and the play is better than in the micro mtts imo (personally I do better playing on tables where at least half the table knows what they're doing). Some of the regs. playing in these are up quite a substantial amount of profit, running very good ROI's (much better than your typical STT grinder). Personally I might have to keep hammering these out for awhile as my MTT results have been in a drought for awhile now and have been looking for something else to play to help build the bankroll.

[1Bigrick]

I think the stt would be better because you wont to limit your time, also be patient i've lost like 3 in a row then placed 4 or 5 straight times

[matt276]

Thanks, guys. Seems like building a bankroll this way is not the most efficient way, but I'm having fun with it. I think I'm going to have to guess a little on what kind of bankroll I need for these 45-man's, since the recommended bankroll for 9-man's seems to be about 30, while the recommended bankroll for big MTT's seems to be about 100 - I'll probably pick a number between 30 and 100.