200: Bloated pot with marginal hand

[jessyj]

pfr is El Grec who runs 17/13. sb is a huge fish playing 86/21. I try to build a pot vs. the huge fish on flop but that does not go according to plan.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($120)
MP3 ($100)
CO ($207)
Button ($388)
SB ($433.90)
Hero (BB) ($200)
UTG ($200)
UTG+1 ($234.60)
MP1 ($200)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, J
2 folds, MP1 bets $8, 4 folds, SB calls $7, Hero calls $6

Flop: ($24) 7, J, 3 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $16, MP1 calls $16, 1 fold

Turn: ($56) 7 (2 players)
Hero does what? Plan for river on a blank if c/c or bet?

[badgers]

I guess you have to c/f. Although FDs are in his range I think there are far more combos of AJ/QQ+ which will be betting the turn more frequently than FDs anyway. I think he will check behind worse hands here most of them time on this card which I think hits your range harder than it hits his. If turn checks through I think you can vbet a blank river.

I'm confused why you think otherwise. Do you think he is calling a turn bet wih worse very often?

[Miffed22001]

I dont like any street
-preflop - meh what are we supposed to flop?
-flop - you turn your hand face up - your opponent cant make a mistake here IMO

[badgers]

How can you play preflop or the flop differently with such a massive fish in the pot who we have position on?

We are meant to flop any pair or draw since we completely dominate SBs range and Greco has to play fairly straight-forward given the presence of the fish.

On the flop, we can't risk greco checking back (which he will with all his air), so it is a clear bet for value vs the fish who will presumably call any gutshot/bottom pair +, while greco has to play fairly straight-forward because the fish is yet to act. It's not like he can profitably float us here.

[Miffed22001]

How can you play preflop or the flop differently with such a massive fish in the pot who we have position on?

We are meant to flop any pair or draw since we completely dominate SBs range and Greco has to play fairly straight-forward given the presence of the fish.

On the flop, we can't risk greco checking back (which he will with all his air), so it is a clear bet for value vs the fish who will presumably call any gutshot/bottom pair +, while greco has to play fairly straight-forward because the fish is yet to act. It's not like he can profitably float us here.

i think were underestimating how often he'll still c-bet this flop as a whiff - SB calls and we overcall or C/R

*sb is a huge fish playing 86/21*. I wanna squeeze pre but this depends on how el greco percieves us. If he thinks we're nitty at all then it's obv super easy squeeze to iso the fish and take down the pot on a lot of flops(This also depends if the fish has been playing fit or fold).

If Greco thinks we are a maniac then I just call pre, It really depends on how often greco is gonna c-bet all his missed overs and shit which you didn't give us a read on so I don't know how to go about flop.

[jessyj]

i think were underestimating how often he'll still c-bet this flop as a whiff - SB calls and we overcall or C/R

he cbets something like 58% so him cbetting isn't a given.

I wanna squeeze pre but this depends on how el greco percieves us. If he thinks we're nitty at all then it's obv super easy squeeze to iso the fish

I think this is a good idea. I am SUPER NITTY!

[Miffed22001]

i think were underestimating how often he'll still c-bet this flop as a whiff - SB calls and we overcall or C/R

he cbets something like 58% so him cbetting isn't a given.

I wanna squeeze pre but this depends on how el greco percieves us. If he thinks we're nitty at all then it's obv super easy squeeze to iso the fish

I think this is a good idea. I am SUPER NITTY!

i kinda thought squeezing was pretty stnd here and thought there as more to this hand which is why we didnt squeeze pre.
Just unsure KJ is the hand to it with vs an MP1 open

[Renton]

calling is 100% fine pre of course.

I would 3bet to isolate the donk though...

On the turn I guess check evaluate. I expect it to go chk/chk a pretty good bit, and you should be able to glean some info from the bet to make a correct decision.

[Deanglow]

If you want to squeeze pre do it with something like 67s not a hand with as much value as KJs. Flop is fine and I'd probably bet/soulread the turn.

[Renton]

yeah miffed your post is way off. Leading is definitely correct on the flop. If check and see a bet and a call, thats not even a great situation for us, because we stand to make almost no additional money because no matter what we do we'll look super strong.

[Renton]

dean the dude is 86/21. you don't think KJs would have more of value in a 3bet pot ip against him than in a multiway pot oop against a tag with a strong range?

[Renton]

imo betting the turn is bad unless you are shoving every river as a bluff (a line I considered, but I think on a non diamond river you might get snapped)

[Deanglow]

dean the dude is 86/21. you don't think KJs would have more of value in a 3bet pot ip against him than in a multiway pot oop against a tag with a strong range?

I'm too scared of getting 4bet off it whereas with 67s I don't care as much.

[Renton]

I don't think its a legitimate concern unless you've noticed the donk getting crazy with shoving pre. He'll mostly just call ime.