QJs oop final 3 $12 180 man

[revolvingiris]

Villain has been typical and not really doing a ton crazy. Im pretty sure I hate my pf call but I wanted to hear everyone elses thoughts.

I just finished my daily session so my head is pretty much mud at the moment.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 12 Tournament, 2000/4000 Blinds 400 Ante (3 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t108422)
SB (t90912)
Hero (BB) (t70666)

Hero's M: 9.81

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, J
Button bets t12000, 1 fold, Hero calls t8000

Flop: (t27200) 6, 2, J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: (t27200) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets t20000, Button calls t20000

River: (t67200) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets t38266 (All-In), Button calls t38266

Total pot: t143732

[Extremophile]

I think the preflop call is fine since we are getting good odds. I would have bet the flop, since villian might have a flush draw. As played check the river but if villian bets, it looks like we have to call.

[drmcboy]

looks fine. If you had more chips I would want to check river but with a half psb left he can call with lots of stuff

pre flop I'm sure shoving is +EV, folding is bad and whether calling is better than shoving just depends on how you play.

I would have bet the flop, since villian might have a flush draw.

if he has a FD he'll usually bet the flop himself. You have to be willing to gamble on a free card now and then. Leading out will fold sooo many hands before they get a chance to c bet.

[Extremophile]

Checking the flop can turn back door draws into real draws, but i see you what you mean; you can make the villian fold by a proper bet.

[drmcboy]

the point is you should worry about value, not making the play that makes it impossible to be drawn out on. If you never get drawn out on, you're playing wrong.

[Extremophile]

my reply was mainly to the "you have to gamble" part.

I am worried about the pot size and I'd rather make the villian fold because the pot is almost 30% my stack. In terms of ICM, it seems to me that survival is more important than trying to get value.

[drmcboy]

but his c bet will be almost half as big as the pot and may be full pot itself. Getting a hand like A9o that will fold to our CR to put in 2/3 PS is huge and the risk of him hitting an A if he checks back is not that great. If he has a hand he's going to call our check raise with there is no way you're making him fold whatever you do so I'm a little confused. You do NOT want him to fold Ax or 77, ICM or no ICM

[Extremophile]

I want him to fold his drawing hands on the turn whereas I don't mind losing value from A9 type of hand. I am not sure if the value we extract when the villian has drawing hands & A8 type of hands compansates the money ( not tournament chips) we lose when he completes his draws and sucks out on us on the river and eliminates us from the tourney.

[drmcboy]

again, what draw are you worried about that you think he'll fold?

[FlyingSaucy]

Played well. If button shoves the turn against your 20000, you still plan to call right?

[fjuanl]

I made a long post about why I'd bet smaller on the turn figuring his flop check behind range is incredibly weak, but I see no problem with that sizing. I can't rule out someone checking back bare Kd or Qd. River is a bit thin but I think its fine since he can call with stuff like TT, A8, Kd8c, Kd9c

I'm a bit of a resteal monkey so most of the time I'd be in preflop since he's likely to have a very wide range 3 handed OTB

[baudib]

The only thing I have to add is I REALLY wish we had better reads here. 3-handed we should have a good idea of this guy's range, what he's going to check back on the flop and what he's going to call the river with.

[baudib]

The only thing I have to add is I REALLY wish we had better reads here. 3-handed we should have a good idea of this guy's range, what he's going to check back on the flop and what he's going to call the river with.

[Extremophile]

again, what draw are you worried about that you think he'll fold?

The villian will be dealt a diamond 43% of the time and raise with some As, suited cards, and connectors.

I guess I am acting like a total nit and simply afraid of getting value when it is more than half my stack, with 3 people left, and i am close to money

[revolvingiris]

Button was like 19/15 over 40 hands. He was at my table when we were down to the final two tables but had a 70k stack then. All he had really been doing was stealing and folding.

On the flop I was going to check raise so I thought when he checked back I would for sure take it down on the turn. I think if I checked the river I loose too much value. I would for sure call if villain put me in though.

I also know that villain is probably never checking that flop with a J.