Stars vs Fulltilt

[Lance]

I have never wanted to talk about it, because it seems to be unbelievable, but....I want to share my experience with this.
This is beyond my poker understanding.

I regularly play on Stars and 2 months ago i have started playing tourneys on Full tilt as well.
I've never seen too many 2,3,4,5 outters on the river as with Full Tilt poker. I've seen even hands like this 88 vs KK on the board A82K8 on Fulltilt but never on PS where i played maybe 10x more hands.
In fact i am shocked almost every session when i play on Fulltilt what cards come on the flop, turn and river in comparison with PS. It becomes funny. It happens to all players on my table, lol.

I remember when i was playing LHE on both sites 1 year ago. I had the same experience after 30k hands (that's the similar sample like 1,5k hands in tourneys) and i didn't want to believe it and it seemed stupid to talk about it.
But now i am almost convinced that something must be different between playing on Full tilt and Pokers Stars.

I am still thinking about it and looking for a cause.
1) just a variation
2) that's the only feeling maybe caused by lower skill of Fulltilt players
3) something bad with random number generator for millions dollars, lol

[RockyMoose]

There's no reason to think the RNG is against you on FT. Continue to think about making +EV plays and all will be fine in the long run.

Reasoning: there are so many players on FT, that any variation from random would be noticed. Those 2+2 guys analyze everything! (FT also has every incentive to make a true RNG. Their technical article about it is interesting, too.)

Let me ask you this though: which site do you think has the best user interface? I have played both and have a STRONG preference for one over the other.

(This thread is in the wrong forum.)

[Fortitude]

i find the $6.50 turbos on stars softer,
i like the interface, promotions, set up of full tilt better
and in terms of negative variance, i cant let my mind be tricked that one site has more over the other

[Lance]

There's no reason to think the RNG is against you on FT. Continue to think about making +EV plays and all will be fine in the long run.

I don't think RNG is only against me, i just see strange things on my table on FT.

4) Maybe something is wrong with my eyes as well

[Nakamura]

There's no reason to think the RNG is against you on FT. Continue to think about making +EV plays and all will be fine in the long run.

I don't think RNG is only against me, i just see strange things on my table on FT.

4) Maybe something is wrong with my eyes as well

There definitely is a perception that bad beats happen more often on FT, which naturally they do since the skill levels of the players is a bit lower at the same stakes. You will also tend to win more hands as well, since folks are getting it all in with a lot of weak draws. The human mind tends to selectively remember the 2-outer bad beats and forget the rest.

[drmcboy]

what is so dumb about these posts is you seem to have the idea that 88K23 88 vs KK means something is wrong. If that never happened, it would mean something was wrong. Maybe stars is the rigged one?

If you don't get that you can't use your own brain to observe these types of things poker is not for you. Get a million hand sample and come talk to us.

[Kijjo]

drmcboy is right, what you do is analyze a database of hands, don't go by your experience. I know I found in my experience that I went through a phase where I had KK vs. AA over and over and felt like this was just absurd how often it was happening at my table. Well after I had a 50k or 75k hands I went back and studied the math. I had right around the level you should expect (I forget the #'s now).
Personally, I find that it often FEELS like there are waves of action cards (either hole cards or boards or whatever). You might have 4 tables open and 3 of them are boring as could be and the 4th table just has chips flying everywhere because the cards are nuts. The thing is, with real randomness, this is exactly what will happen. I've played live games where we use two different colored decks (someone will shuffle one deck while we're playing the hand to speed up the game). Some nights we'll notice that if feels like all the power hands happen with the red deck, while the blue one has someone getting a walk on the blinds every second time.
So, what's the answer? Play good poker. Win. Point and laugh along the way.

[Carl Trooper]

both sites suck IMO

see things I never see in live play numerous times.. more than it should and I am counting the whole you see more hands a hour concept

too many awsome flops spike for both players way above the norm

[drmcboy]

Did you see how rigged the WSOP was that one year when the guy in the tank top had the royal vs quad aces? That's why I play on line instead of live, at least until I see it there.

[OP]

Man can believe the impossible, but man can never believe the improbable.

[taipan168]

Did you see how rigged the WSOP was that one year when the guy in the tank top had the royal vs quad aces? That's why I play on line instead of live, at least until I see it there.

How about when Corey Zeitman punted Jennifer Harman out of the WSOP with a straight flush against her queens full? That's CLEARLY rigged against Jennifer - particularly when she has had such bad luck in the WSOP in the past.

[Poker Orifice]

There definitely is a perception that bad beats happen more often on FT, which naturally they do since the skill levels of the players is a bit lower at the same stakes.

Curious as to what stakes? My experience has been that in the $6turbos the players on Fulltilt are better (I run Topshark while playing on both sites,.... although maybe that's not an indication of them being better seeing as their results/stats. are based on the opponents/fields they are playing against). I do find there to be a marginally higher ratio of regs. w +ROI & high volume on Fulltilt. Maybe it also has something to do with the time of day?? (I'm usually playing at 23:00 > 05:00 EST).

[Lance]

Did you see how rigged the WSOP was that one year when the guy in the tank top had the royal vs quad aces? That's why I play on line instead of live, at least until I see it there.

How about when Corey Zeitman punted Jennifer Harman out of the WSOP with a straight flush against her queens full? That's CLEARLY rigged against Jennifer - particularly when she has had such bad luck in the WSOP in the past.

yea, ive seen those 2 vids many times, i love them. I feel so much with Jennifer.
Or 1st hand of a guy vs Farha with AT vs TT and flop AAT. If that happens to me i would shoot myself or something

[lolzzz_321]

lol cmon

[JustinSKS]

Rogged imo.

[drmcboy]

Did you see how rigged the WSOP was that one year when the guy in the tank top had the royal vs quad aces? That's why I play on line instead of live, at least until I see it there.

How about when Corey Zeitman punted Jennifer Harman out of the WSOP with a straight flush against her queens full? That's CLEARLY rigged against Jennifer - particularly when she has had such bad luck in the WSOP in the past.

yea, ive seen those 2 vids many times, i love them. I feel so much with Jennifer.
Or 1st hand of a guy vs Farha with AT vs TT and flop AAT. If that happens to me i would obv know that casino was rigged

fyp

[Roxxyfish]

for me both sites are bullshit but stars is for sure more worse, for me Cake and Bodog are way more profitable

[Nakamura]

Man, this thread just won't die.

What does a poker room stand to win if they rig? A few more dollars from some happy players. If they get caught, they will lose the best money-making racket ever. Millions of players will stop pouring their millions of dollars each hour into these sites. It defies logic that they would want to rig the games when they make so much money already.

Secondly, their random number generators are carefully monitored and subject to an audit. They would get caught pretty quickly if they were rigging them.

Thirdly, computationally, rigging every players cards is so computationally heavy since you need to know a players' history and then make sure every players' cards are in line with their history and the flop. It just seems very implausible.

[flomo]

lock

[Lance]

Man, this thread just won't die.

What does a poker room stand to win if they rig? A few more dollars from some happy players. If they get caught, they will lose the best money-making racket ever. Millions of players will stop pouring their millions of dollars each hour into these sites. It defies logic that they would want to rig the games when they make so much money already.

Secondly, their random number generators are carefully monitored and subject to an audit. They would get caught pretty quickly if they were rigging them.

Thirdly, computationally, rigging every players cards is so computationally heavy since you need to know a players' history and then make sure every players' cards are in line with their history and the flop. It just seems very implausible.

Yea, i have been thinking many times about that.
Well, what's happen when a bad player will be loosing ? He will end up his "poker career" sooner or later if he has no patience and will to learn how to play better.
And what is happen when a bad player sometimes win a big pot when he is an huge underdog ? He will keep playing and casino gets more money !
That's my theory.

Edit: As you said, in this case it must be some player history to know who is loosing and winning player

[drmcboy]

The worst hand is supposed to win sometimes and it does, that's why poker is something we can make money at. Go see what the world's top chess players make. Basically you're arguing that they made poker more like poker.

Again, it isn't impossible for the sites to be rigged, but no one is ever going to take you seriously until you have some data to support your claims. You can't just watch games for a day/week/year and decide something is rigged, the game is supposed to be random.