6-max Discussion

[Im_new]

I don't see many threads around here about 6-max MTTs, So I think this would be a fun starting point. I'm going to post a few questions that anyone can feel free to talk about. You don't need to give a long essay (though they are welcomed), just say something pertinent.

In 6-max, your average vpip and pfr should go up in relation to your full table stats. Where do you guys prefer your stats?

What is more profitable, 6-max or full table MTTs?

What kind of player will thrive in each? Fundamentals aside, what skills set is valued more in each arena?

Which one is softer on the different sites?

Does one have a better blind structure than the other on any particular site?

As you move up through the stakes, does one become tougher to beat? (example: maybe, in FR MTT, the competition gets drastically better at $22, while it doesn't get tougher in 6-max until you reach $55.)

Last, where are the best 6-max MTTs at?

I hope this will be a successful thread because I know there are people out there looking for this information. Maybe this can spark a 6-max digest; I would write one, but I'm not qualified.

[tuuk2]

I second this thread. I have become pretty successful in 6-max microstakes NL and I was wondering if that would translate well in 6-max MTTs. I would assume that blind stealing becomes more important because you'll be hitting them more often. Also, you can play more hands simply because there are less players to have to contend with.

[revolvingiris]

I play lagg as shit and aggressive as fuck. I just felt like making an R rated post

You have to 3bet more and develop creative ways with your bluffs.

[Im_new]

I play lagg as shit and aggressive as fuck. I just felt like making an R rated post

You have to 3bet more and develop creative ways with your bluffs.

Lol...same here, and it proves to be profitable. My stats are around 31/22, I think. It is a small sample size though, only 26 tournies for +$.

But how loose is just too damn loose? Which opponents do you attack more often?

[fjuanl]

VPIP/PFR for me is normally in the 25/20 range and can vary a lot

6max should be more profitable than full-ring because theres more chances for bad players to make mistakes and stacks are deeper

Things that are more important:
- being able to adjust to opponents (#1 imo)
- hand reading and postflop skill
- aggression

[Im_new]

VPIP/PFR for me is normally in the 25/20 range and can vary a lot

6max should be more profitable than full-ring because theres more chances for bad players to make mistakes and stacks are deeper

Things that are more important:
- being able to adjust to opponents (#1 imo)
- hand reading and postflop skill
- aggression

That makes sense. How can you tell when a player has adjusted to you? How do you really know when you're the one being exploited? I don't think poker players talk about that enough.

[fjuanl]

Sometimes its hard to tell, but I think its best to assume that players aren't drastically adjusting their style. Lets say your deep into the 6max event and you seem to have a good feel for how the villains play. They seem pretty tight so you decide to open up and start attacking the blinds more. The villains can easily exploit you by restealing or 3betting light, but you've already assumed those plays aren't in their arsenal. Stick with that plan unless its failing miserably after a lot of tries

[Im_new]

Sometimes its hard to tell, but I think its best to assume that players aren't drastically adjusting their style. Lets say your deep into the 6max event and you seem to have a good feel for how the villains play. They seem pretty tight so you decide to open up and start attacking the blinds more. The villains can easily exploit you by restealing or 3betting light, but you've already assumed those plays aren't in their arsenal. Stick with that plan unless its failing miserably after a lot of tries

It is the worst feeling when you've found a nit who seems to continually 3bet you and only you.

[revolvingiris]

But you can also adjust to them once they have adjusted to you ie 4betting wider or become tighter. Also, you have to be careful because nits go on card rushes also.

[Im_new]

I understand the concept of adjusting. I'm asking HOW can you tell when someone has adjusted to you? How many times do you let them 3bet you before it becomes a problem?

[revolvingiris]

I don't think its frequency as much as it is what types of hands they are 3betting you with. Like if a tagg only used to 3bet you with a range of JJ+, AK. Then all of a sudden shows up with QTo, this would be a pretty good indicator.

[Im_new]

I don't think its frequency as much as it is what types of hands they are 3betting you with. Like if a tagg only used to 3bet you with a range of JJ+, AK. Then all of a sudden shows up with QTo, this would be a pretty good indicator.

That's one way, but I find that I don't get to showdown very often in 3bet pots. If we aren't getting to showdown in these hands, we can't be too sure what he's actually 3betting; we would still be assuming that his 3bets are tight or light or whatever because nothing visceral changed our perception of his hand. Doesn't frequency have to play a role at some point? We know he can't be 3betting nitty-tight if for 4 of our last 5 circulations, he's 3bet your open, right?

[revolvingiris]

Yeah but just make sure he doesnt show up catching cards. Taggs typically in the micro stakes arent going to be 3betting you light anyways unless your really deep in a tourney (some micro players know how to do this).

This isnt as big of an issue as it is for cash players. Most tourney players play their hands pretty face up. On rare occasions do I find someone who is good at balancing. Which is why I said if you are getting 3bet a lot by someone who usually doesnt 3bet. Odds are they probably have the goods.

[fjuanl]

I wish there was some magic formula for this and it seems like most solid pros would answer this by saying "gameflow". Basically looking at whats happend in recent orbits and how the villain might be thinking.

Lets say you've shown down an unbelievably loose open or you are just being totally aggro. Theres a reason for someone to start 3betting you light. Or lets say you already know someone to be aggressive and you see them start 3betting near the final table bubble. You might want to assume they're taking advantage of the bubble and will 3betting light a ton

Deciding which way to adjust is something I'm not really clear about. ie: do you..
a) keep stealing a lot and 4bet more hands
b) tighten up and blind steal less

Im_New, from the example you gave that seems perfectly reasonable to assume his 3betting range is wide. Its just so statistically rare for him to have it every time that you just have to assume he's light sometimes

[Im_new]

I wish there was some magic formula for this and it seems like most solid pros would answer this by saying "gameflow". Basically looking at whats happend in recent orbits and how the villain might be thinking.

Lets say you've shown down an unbelievably loose open or you are just being totally aggro. Theres a reason for someone to start 3betting you light. Or lets say you already know someone to be aggressive and you see them start 3betting near the final table bubble. You might want to assume they're taking advantage of the bubble and will 3betting light a ton

Deciding which way to adjust is something I'm not really clear about. ie: do you..
a) keep stealing a lot and 4bet more hands
b) tighten up and blind steal less

Im_New, from the example you gave that seems perfectly reasonable to assume his 3betting range is wide. Its just so statistically rare for him to have it every time that you just have to assume he's light sometimes

great response.

This must be where the Pros excel; they can pick up on the subtleties. Damn, I wish i were phil ivey lol.