FT UTG Limps...

[sk8r_daniel]

Havent seen much of this guy. He hasnt played a hand yet. Then he limps utg...I'm thinking he has to have a big hand here. Is the flop spew?
Hero in BB dealt 9s9c

No Limit Holdem Tournament
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$3,000 GP R/A Buy-In: $10+$1

Stacks:
UTG (31k)
UTG+1 (82k)
MP1 (89k)
MP2 (39k)
MP3 (94k)
CO (96k)
BTN (35k)
SB (55k)
BB (63k)

Blinds: 2.5k/5k Ante 500

Pre-Flop: (12k, 9 players)
UTG calls 5k, 7 folds, BB checks

Flop: (17k, 2 players)
BB bets 20k

[sk8r_daniel]

While I'm at it...same tourny, not sure if I should call all in here..I'm getting 2-1 and extremely short.

No Limit Holdem Tournament
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$3,000 GP R/A Buy-In: $10+$1

SB shows


Stacks:
UTG (134k)
UTG+1 (76k)
MP1 (93k)
MP2 (108k)
CO (82k)
BTN (19k)
SB (18k)
BB (56k)

Blinds: 3k/6k Ante 600

Pre-Flop: (14k, 8 players)
4 folds, CO raises to 13k, 1 fold,

[baudib]

Hand 1 -- you suspect he has a big hand and then make a pot-committing bet that can only be called by hands you're crushed by and hands you're flipping with. seems like you can accomplish the same thing by bet-folding $8,000 or so.

Hand 2 -- is fine but you should probably find a spot before your M is under 2.

[Extremophile]

Hand 1) There is no reason every UTG limper has a big PP. I would make it 12K preflop and call a shove:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.912% 48.32% 00.59% 108395272 1319249.00 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 1: 51.088% 50.50% 00.59% 113278054 1319249.00 { 9c9s }

If he flats that 4x put him all in regardless of the flop. We'll still have some chips left behind.

Hand 2) We aren't dominated often with JT here and we are getting the right price most of the time. I am a little nit when it comes to calling AI at these spots but calling shouldn't be wrong here imo.

[baudib]

I should have said that obviously raising pre is fine....having gotten to the flop with no raise, well, the UTG limper's range probably comprises quite a bit of A-sooted x as well.

[drmcboy]

1) shove pre, raising not AI is also meh(do people see it's 25k effective stack?). As played I would just give up or as baudib said make a much smaller bet.

2) I would gamble if we were BB but now that we can see another orbit I would wait. Esp at the FT, with these stacks you may move up a couple spots in 1 orbit.

[baudib]

that's a great point on hand 2 doc.

[sk8r_daniel]

I'm pretty sure he is utg limping way tighter here. With the way the table was running i was sure he had QQ-AA... I took forever to decide to check. And then when the ace popped out I had a mad thoughtthat he would fold KK and QQ.. Maybe this was a bit heroic...when he snap called with AA I still wasn't sure if he would fold the KK or QQ. Either way I should have stuck with my instinct to check/fold...either that or just shove preflop.

Hand 2.. I was crushed after flipping TT vs AKs for the chip lead and had been all in numerous times after that. I really like drmc's point of being able to wait a bit for others to bust and move up.

[drmcboy]

i think you're confusing people because you seem to have a tight read but the first sentence in your post is "Havent seen much of this guy." so we're assuming you don't have a read. If I see a random limp with 6 BBs I don't assume they have a monster, I assume they suck at poker, or given that it's the FT that they are scared money.

[sk8r_daniel]

With how tight the table was, with every raise getting folded around to, and him not playing a hand for the entire final table, I figure this has to be a monster hand.... I'm not saying every player at every final table limping utg has a monster here, but this was my read.

If you agree with my read or not, if his range is exclusively QQ-AA is this total spew? I honestly wanted to check fold the entire time.

[drmcboy]

Again, give the full read in the first post for best results. That isn't at all what you said above. It's nine handed, for all we know it's the first orbit.

I can't really say it's spew as I would never be limping here as UTG without some table dynamic that almost guaranteed a raise. Is he just going to put his head down and call after playing it this way? I don't know how anyone can say one way or the other. Shove, small lead, CR small bet by him could all work or could all fail vs QQ.