Cbetting and flop texture

[Fielmann]

It has often been stated (mostly in strategy articles, less in forum threads) that we should be more inclined to cbet when flop didn't hit opponent's range, and less inclined to cbet when it did. I'm no longer sure if I understand this idea.

Example situation. It is early in an SNG. You get dealt AJ in MP. It is folded to you and you make your standard raise. Other players fold, BB calls. His calling range is (66-JJ, AT-AQ, KJ+). Flop comes 832r. BB checks. That's a safe flop to cbet. But is it correct to do so?

There are two main reasons for betting. Either to make weaker hands call (value bet) or better hands fold (bluff). In this situation we have trouble accomplishing either goal. So how could a cbet make us any money?

Second example. Everything else the same except that flop comes KQ2r. Even though our opponent checked, this flop hit his range quite hard and cbetting seems dangerous. Yet there is a number of hands in his range that beat us, that he is likely to fold (66-JJ). So betting could easily be profitable.

Did I make any sense here?

[LawDude]

I think the point of 832 is that you raised pre-flop, and people tend not to call pre-flop raises with hands that have 8's, 3's, 2's, or something like 45 very often. Meanwhile, they do tend to call pre-flop raises a lot with broadway cards and the like.

Thus, you can get a big part of the villain's range to fold with a c-bet on an 832 flop. Whereas you can only get a smaller part of villain's range to fold on a flop with a king and a queen on it, because so many of the hands villain calls with are going to contain kings or queens or draws that utilize the king and queen.

A related issue concerns paired boards. It's often good to c-bet on a paired board, because if the board is, say, JJ6, the villain has to have one of 2 cards in his hand rather than one of 3 to hit the flop.

But obviously, you are going to run into villains who hit the 832 or the JJ6 flop and you are also going to run into villains who missed the flop with the broadway cards. It's just that the broadway flop hits more of the villain's calling range.

One other thing I should add. Even though the mantra is to bet to get better hands to fold, when your hand is vulnerable, it isn't horrible to get worse hands to fold and take the pot down right then, especially with a hand like Ace-high where you never really know if you are ahead.

I'd much rather c-bet the 832 flop with ace high and win the pot right there than get called and have to spend the rest of the hand trying to figure out whether my ace is good.

[Chamaican66]

I agree C betting the 832 flop is better, you may have opponents who will raise you with air or with a pp or even float it with ace high or even worse. However, the majority will not try anything fancy, especially in the early lvls of a STT. If you check behind and say a 9 or a 10 rolls off on the turn and he bets, do you know where you stand? you could very well be ahead but you have no way of knowing. This leads back to the old idea of betting, "bet for information" thats what your cbet accomplishes.

[Extremophile]

c-betting depends also on the villian. If the villian bets the turn 100% of the time after you both check the flop, then you should check the flop in order to induce a bluff.

It also depends on how often you c-bet. Sometimes you need to check the flop in order to balance your c-betting range. If your c-bet % is very high, you can get a lot of checkraises by opps: http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver....tc-theorem.php

If your opponents call your preflop raises with crap and don't adjust to your high c-bet %, then, you will also be ahead on the flop most of the time and your c-bets will be profitable.

c-betting in tournaments is also a lot different from those in cash games. In tournaments, we make a raise preflop and when we c-bet the flop, we need to commit a high % of our stack. Even if we have a big stack, the villians are often short. So, we should also consider our stack size and the villian's stack size when we c-bet. We should decide whether we want to commit the rest of our stack when the villian shoves to our c-bet.

Edit: We never know what the villian's holdings are. We can only assign them ranges. So, the board texture is often irrelevant. Ranges are more important imo. In your example, he won't be able to improve a high % of the hands in his range, e.g. broadways, on the board you have given. If the board is let's say KT2, we should also c-bet because, he will fold medium pocket pairs this time. Again, all these assumptions depend on the villian.

[Nakamura]

Moving up to the $16s, I have realised this is one of the weaker parts of my game. I am beginning to realise that choosing to c-bet is often determined by your opponent (and what they feel they can represent) than the range of cards they have, although these concepts are somewhat linked.

Choosing to cbet a loose opponent who feels he can CRAI often is unlikely to be very profitable. Save your chips and rather value bet.

Last thought ... scary flops are also scary for our opponents as well. C-betting a flop such as JhTh9h makes absolute sense to me, c-betting on a KhQc2d flop doesn't always make sense.

[baudib]

Cbetting in SnGs is tricky because of shallow stacks. I'm really not inclined to cbet flops with 3 broadways and 2 flush very often unless i flop huge. c-betting low dry flops is fairly opp. dependent. A lot of times I will check even if I know I have the best hand...

On a 543, 2 flush board, I feel like I need QQ+ to cbet because few villains are folding any pair, draw or even A-high, 99 or something isn't really strong enough to pot commit myself.

[djh860]

I have found Cbetting into 2 face cards does not work well for me unless it hit me. So I opt to check behind about 40% of the time and bet the turn instead . My turn bets have been successful fairly often. Then about 10% of the time I will reraise with air if the SB stabs at the turn. My thinking is he is most likely holding a marginal hand 2nd pair or an under pair or trying to steal. If he has a monster he'll put a massive reraise in and ill fold.
The 90% of the time I don't reraise I might discover very good outs to call and see the river.
I like Cbetting best into a flop with 1 face card.

I understand your comment about the all low flop the other player should guess you missed the flop entirely. You may have to bet the turn as well to shake off middle pairs and draws. This will also shake off those who call with air and look to steal on the turn when you check.