correct turbo rebuy sat strategy

[CorbinDallas]

in non-turbo MTT rebuys you should always double rebuy from the beginning?

but in sats like the $5 turbo rb to the $55 gtd... you should try to get to add-on as cheap as possible right? so don't double rb even if you go bust a couple times.

had a discussion today with a friend. he was saying you should always double rebuy... sat or reg MTT.

[drmcboy]

It's a 5 rb to a $55 tourney? that seems really silly and my gut says correct strategy is to play something else, but maybe they are super soft and you're playing them for T$s. Maybe people fold way too much? But if you're doing that, you should be answering this question, not asking it.

Regular speed I always rebuy for the max because I figure it's more likely I'll have position against deep fish vs being OOP vs a good player. Also generically vs MTT ave guy I feel good about the hands when the extra XX BBs get played. If I were to sit down at a 20+ RB and no one re-bought except some MTT stud behind me I might not RB right away. But even there it would suck to have two fish double the second hand after you accidentally 300 chips in the first. In practice I don't think I've ever not doubled.

I don't play many of these crazy RB turbo things but every time I do I def get confused about whether it makes sense to RB for 15 BBs or whatever, and that's in a normal structure with a 1st place. In these sats I'm thinking it probably doesn't. But I would think the first BI should still be double, you just maybe should not buy back in at all once the blinds get over X. And you would need to do some math on what you can afford to spend total based on whatever your edge seems to be.

Also it probably depends how close you are to cashing after the RB period ends, and what the ave stack will look like.

Oo one more think, I am guessing most players are probably people sat-ing in from like a .10 sat and not rebuying at all, in that case surely the first RB would be really +EV.

[mcatdog]

I used to grind these things a few years ago and still grind the $30 turbo rebuys to live events, and I disagree with most of doc's post. My strategy in turbo rebuys is to never double rebuy but always single rebuy if knocked out. If people played well these satellites would have very little value I agree, but they're extremely soft due to people playing terribly after the add-on when stacks are short.

You 100% need to still be in the tournament at that point but I don't think the extra chips are worth another buyin

[CorbinDallas]

in what way do you feel they play poorly? limited ICM knowledge? calling to much or not calling enough?

[drmcboy]

cool, i was hoping you would math by. if you get over the prize value do you continue to rebuy?

Could you say specifically what you disagree with?

[Poker Orifice]

Why does a $5rb to a $55 seem really silly? (one of them also has $500 overlay in it). TONS of terrible satellite players out there.

[mcatdog]

cool, i was hoping you would math by. if you get over the prize value do you continue to rebuy?

Could you say specifically what you disagree with?

Sorry, I was avoiding FTR for awhile because I was tired of it taking 2 minutes to load. I disagree with both the idea of double rebuying at the beginning, and with dropping out if you bust. Basically your equity comes from 2 things, one people being horrible at push-fold and satellite strategy in general, and two the fact that the add-on is usually huge relative to the starting stack. What this means is that each rebuy is -EV but the addon is so +EV that your main goal is to get there with as few rebuys invested as possible. I don't think the negative value of double rebuying can be made up for by how bad people are, given it's a turbo and the blinds go up really fast.

[drmcboy]

No worries, I was in and out a lot during this time too. thanks for the reply. I was mostly worried you disagreed with the non turbo rebuy stuff I said since I play lots of those. I figured the turbo RB stuff was talking out of my ass.

Your logic is good and I know with your volume your educated guess are almost surely right. do you run numbers on this kind of thing or is it just feel?

Just wondering how we compare the EV of missing a chance to double -say with a overpair vs set where all the money would go in regardless of stack size in most cases - vs the EV of the initial extra rebuy.