KK OOP horrible flop

[Alpine021]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 5.5 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

First of all whats happened to the hand converter? Every1 else seems to be able to post hands? Mine is coming up all funny?

Anyway as for the hand early only a few hands in. I think I bet pot subconsciously to "protect" my hand thinking he would just give up but now I think I've just thrown away 230. His min bet almost certainly indicate he is drawing but also that he probably isn't folding.

Should I just give up as soon as the flop comes and check - fold?


Hero (SB) (t1500)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1500)
Button (t1500)

Hero's M: 33.33

Preflop: Hero is SB with KhKs
UTG calls t30, 6 folds, Hero bets t100, 1 fold, UTG calls t70

Flop: (t230) 10d 8d 9d (2 players)[/color]
Hero bets t230, UTG raises to t460

Hero?

Total pot: t690

[taipan168]

Firstly, raise a bit more preflop, make it 120-150 to go, but not a big deal either way.

Ouch, that is really a bad flop for you. I would most likely lead because there's no reason to believe that you're beat (yet), but I wouldn't bet pot (btw: if you never ever hit that "bet pot" button again that won't be too soon). 150 is plenty on the flop and once you get raised, without the Kd, I would probably just give up. There's a chance that he's trying to pick off your c-bet, but I'm not sure it's worth your stack to find out:

Board: Td 8d 9d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.679% 42.75% 02.92% 26666 1824.00 { KhKs }
Hand 1: 54.321% 51.40% 02.92% 32056 1824.00 { 88+, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, ATs, KdQd, KdJd, KTs, QTs, ATo, KTo, QTo }

[drmcboy]

c/c seems much better than b/f, why b/f? "There is no reason to believe you are beat" is incomplete. Will worse call? Better fold? What happens on later streets?

[fulksy]

c/c seems much better than b/f

So if a blank hits the turn (assuming he bets) you c/c again or c/f?

[drmcboy]

usually I would c/f the turn, this is a hard board to bet on turn even with a hand like AdTx. This is def a spot I would call more small bets and fold to large ones, even big hands like straights and small flushes will usually bet over 3/4 pot.

[taipan168]

c/c seems much better than b/f, why b/f? "There is no reason to believe you are beat" is incomplete. Will worse call? Better fold? What happens on later streets?

Yeah, I can see c/c as a potential line which is most probably what I would do on an A high flop, so I can see the same logic applying here.

[Alpine021]

Maybe c/c was the way to go. I just thought a bet might have taken it as it was a scare board but looking back I think my bet looked like I wanted to end it there which is exploitable.

But even with a c/c i'm not loving any 7, J, A, diamond or even maybe not the board pairing so it's hard from start to finish.

[drmcboy]

yeah you're giving up on a lot of turns, but there are some bricks left. it doesn't cost you any more than bet fold and you get another card.

There is no law that says he'll bet, often we get a free card and now all the sudden a couple things happen:

sets and straights mostly come out of the range because he'd surely bet those.

draws that were ~50% are now ~ 25%.

so the above range will look much better.

No reason to assume he'll bet, we raised pre.

[Alpine021]

Yeah sounds good. So I take it we are leading if it bricks? Say 2/3 pot? I'd hate it to go check check if we're ahead.

Then again this is never going to be a big pot anyway.

[TLR]

I would go for a c-c reasonable bet on the flop, there are too many hands he can have that he will call/raise with, you want to keep the pot small