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re-steal MATH EV, please check

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  1. #1

    Default re-steal MATH EV, please check

    this is a rather simplified example of a common re-steal situation. i'm more interested if i did the math correctly rather than if villains assumed action is accurate. once i get the math confirmed, we can debate villains steal % and calling % based on his image and stack size. then we can replug the numbers based on different villains, hands, etc.

    blinds 1000/2000 antes 200 4800 in the pot.

    CO Villain raises 2.5x and has 46k. you have T8s on the BB with 36k. CO Villain has PFR of 15%. you shove.

    in this example... villain is calling with top 5%.
    let's assume he's gonna steal with hands outside his normal range sometimes so instead of getting called 1/3 times, let's say we get called 1/4 times. (this may be way off but let me go with it for this example and we can debate this after as it shouldn't change the basic equation.)

    blinds/antes= 4800
    villains raise= 5000
    POT= 9800
    we shove 34000
    3 out of 4 times villain folds we win 9800x3=29400 (should this number be the amount of chips added to our stack OR the total amount of chips we win INCLUDING our shoved stack.... 43800 ????)

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 69.677% 69.41% 00.27% 309003020 1196884.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }
    Hand 1: 30.323% 30.05% 00.27% 133802252 1196884.00 { T8s }

    when we get called:

    blinds/antes= 4800
    villains raise= 5000
    our shove= 34000
    villains call= 29000
    total= 72800

    we lose 70%= -50960
    we win 30%= +21840

    villain folds we win= 29400 chips
    villain calls we win= 21840 chips
    TOTAL won= 51240 chips
    villain calls= -50960 chips

    TOTAL= +280 chips. (obviously, this number is much higher if i should use the above red method. can someone confirm or correct me here?)

    couldn't something like this be
    made into a resteal EV chart... plug in the blinds, villains numbers (reads, estimated calling %) chips stacks and presto?
    Last edited by CorbinDallas; 03-11-2010 at 01:32 PM.
    guys he's just looking to complain about taking coolers/beats

    he'll continue to be the type of poker player we all love, the one that isn't any good but thinks he is, and slowly donates to the regulars.
  2. #2
    no, it should not include your shoved stack.

    yep, you could make a re steal chart.
  3. #3
    I've tried making a chart and memorizing it but theres too many variables to look at and the profitability of a resteal changes a LOT with just a small change in your assumptions.

    Your stack size: Having 15BBs vs 22BBs matters

    Villain Raise size: Is it a full 3x open? Minraise? 2.5x?

    Villain Opening range: Small sample sizes on your HUD may be way off from his real opening range

    Villain Call resteal range: It seems harder to get this part wrong, but theres still room for error

    Edge: Should you take every resteal as long as you net 1 chip? 1 SB? 1 BB? This skews things a ton and I'm not sure what kind of an edge is appropriate
    Last edited by fjuanl; 03-11-2010 at 04:33 PM.
  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by fjuanl View Post
    I've tried making a chart and memorizing it but theres too many variables to look and the profitability of a resteal changes a LOT with just a few changes.

    Your stack size: Having 15BBs vs 22BBs matters

    Villain Raise size: Is it a full 3x open? Minraise? 2.5x?

    Villain Opening range: Small sample sizes on your HUD may be way off from his real opening range

    Villain Call resteal range: It seems harder to get this part wrong, but theres still room for error

    Edge: Should you take every resteal as long as you net 1 chip? 1 SB? 1 BB? This skews things a ton and I'm not sure what kind of an edge is appropriate
    agreed. lots of variables. but maybe this is a good exercise anyway.

    about the HUD... has anyone used pokeredge for tournaments? they have a large database to pull from which could give you more hands on opponents than the 30 or 50 u might have on potential villains.
    guys he's just looking to complain about taking coolers/beats

    he'll continue to be the type of poker player we all love, the one that isn't any good but thinks he is, and slowly donates to the regulars.
  5. #5
    yeah I'm same as juan, I think it's good to try it a couple times but I never came up with a sheet I would call usable, just had a better idea of when to re steal ship. Also I found the biggest difference maker was usually the % fold which depends a lot more on history than the numbers in my experience.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CorbinDallas View Post
    agreed. lots of variables. but maybe this is a good exercise anyway.

    about the HUD... has anyone used pokeredge for tournaments? they have a large database to pull from which could give you more hands on opponents than the 30 or 50 u might have on potential villains.
    def useful but illegal as far as most sites are concerned. i gave it up in favour of PT3

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