what to do about calling stations early on?

[LawDude]

6.50 10 table turbo sit and go on stars, Hero is in the hijack with AJ suited. Blinds are at 15/30, I've got about 1700 chips, haven't played any hands of note.

3 loose-passives limp in before me.

My normal approach here is to raise 3BB + 1 for each limper, which is 6BB, or 180.

Here's the problem. I get a call from the BB and the 3 loose-passives also all call. Now, I still have an equity advantage with AJs, but it's a much harder hand to play post-flop. Plus I've bloated the pot.

The result of this hand, of course, is I got stacked with TPTK to someone who hit his gutshot with 87o, but that's not important. I really don't care about getting bounced out of the tournament. I do care about getting my big ace heads-up or 3-handed.

So should I raise more in this sort of situation? I am not sure it even matters with stations; their reasoning process may not extend beyond "I have a good hand and want to see a flop". Should I just limp along and play it as a speculative hand, betting the flop if it hits and dumping it if it misses? Or should I (gasp) fold it on the grounds that it's early in the tournament, I am not getting the scenario I want with the hand and there may be better hands down the line?

[drmcboy]

seems fine, limping and smaller raise OK too. raise bigger I want some reads. If you expect them to call and you don't want play for stacks with TPTK then do something else. If you fold pre you should unregister for the tourney, spots aren't going to get better than your options here. If they call and stack off with gutters great. If they call and wait for two pair +, also great.

If the results don't matter why are they in the post?

[LawDude]

The result that I care about is that I couldn't maneuver the hand into a favorable scenario.

Bear in mind there's a difference between:

1. I want gutshots to call (true)

and

2. I want 3 or 4 schooling fish to call so as to make it extremely difficult to play the hand (false).

I'm looking for the best way to avoid (2), not (1).

[drmcboy]

People calling with every hand they limped with is clearly favorable as you said in OP. If you want to reduce variance it's a different story that I think ends with you not really wanting to play MTTs.

One of the many great reasons not to post results is it's easier for your post to be taken as something other than "I lost, what did I do wrong" which is a horrible thought process for poker in general but especially for MTTs where you'll lose pretty much all of them.

[LawDude]

People calling with every hand they limped with is clearly favorable as you said in OP. If you want to reduce variance it's a different story that I think ends with you not really wanting to play MTTs.

One of the many great reasons not to post results is it's easier for your post to be taken as something other than "I lost, what did I do wrong" which is a horrible thought process for poker in general but especially for MTTs where you'll lose pretty much all of them.

Wait a second, though. One difference between a cash game and an MTT is in a cash game, it's one long session-- you can in theory lose every hand for an hour on a bad beat from a fish who is calling with something stupid and sucking out, and you will come back over time.

But a tournament is different. I thought that was really the spirit of my question. I don't think having TPGK in a 4- or 5-way raised pot is good for my stack, because even if I have, say 55 percent equity in the hand, I have significant reverse implied odds (because calling stations are hard to read) and the danger of suffering a crippling loss as well as being vulnerable to bluffs.

So, again, the result isn't the point. The point is I don't want to get into a big, bloated pot against several schooling players early in the tournament. I want to get my hand into a shorthanded pot because I want to stay in the tournament.

[drmcboy]

You don't want to stay in the tournament, you want to win chips. Tourneys are one long session too, except in ICM/payout spots where you might make some changes. Not an issue here. Of course if a spot is very close, you might take the lower variance route in events with good structures/where your edge is high.

You keep talking about 55% equity like it's a bad thing, but that is a great spot with all the dead money. Plus normally the people with 5-10% will fold on the flop and you win it there or continue getting a horrible price, this isn't limit where they can profitably call you down once the pot gets large. And in a 4-5 way pot there are only 1.5-2 bets left, they are the one with reverse implied odds with their worse Ax and Jx hands.

Whoever invented the words "Tourney life" made good tournament players a lot of money.

[baudib]

You don't want to stay in the tournament, you want to win chips. Tourneys are one long session too, except in ICM/payout spots where you might make some changes. ....

Whoever invented the words "Tourney life" made good tournament players a lot of money.

This is, imo, the most important thing to learn about MTTs. Your tournament life isn't worth very much.

[revolvingiris]

I still have yet to learn wtf tourney life even means. I think most people assume it means stay in as long as you can to try and climb the cash board. I mean really your tourny life is your chip stack and its your job to go out and get as much life (chips) as you can.

As far as dealing with loose players there are two options. Either be willing to raise/3bet more or limp more. You want to take advantage of their ability to just throw in dead money. So either jam that up when equity is in your favor (meaning take more thin edges) or just limp in position more.

[baudib]

"tournament life" refers to phrases (similar to flipping at best) that you sometimes hear from bad players like "OMG I don't wanna risk my TOURNAMENT LIFE with AK when I'm FLIPPING AT BEST!!!!!111111"

[WeaselT]

get it in good and move on. whole table comes along, whatever, if you went in best thats all you can do. focus on correct decisions. cant make em fold so u just have to take the best of it when you got it. dunno what else you're looking for. sounds like u went in good, just ended bad sooo....

[revolvingiris]

"OMG I don't wanna risk my TOURNAMENT LIFE with AK when I'm FLIPPING AT BEST!!!!!111111"

Where can I go to thank the person who started this?