limp with K7 SB, hit TP, aggressive villian

[pat3392]

Poker Stars $3.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 10 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t1480 M = 49.33
BTN: t1560 M = 52
Hero (SB): t1480 M = 49.33
BB: t1500 M = 50
UTG: t1500 M = 50
UTG+1: t1500 M = 50
UTG+2: t1500 M = 50
MP1: t1500 M = 50
MP2: t1480 M = 49.33
MP3: t1500 M = 50

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is SB with 7 K
4 folds, MP2 calls t20, 1 fold, CO calls t20, 1 fold, Hero calls t10, BB checks

Flop: (t80) K 5 4 (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets t100, CO calls t100, Hero calls t100, BB folds

Turn: (t380) Q (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t360, CO folds, Hero folds

Not that I look at this I think I should not have called preflop; I think to call here the kicker would need to be a 8+(not that it would have made a difference)



EDIT: I"m thinking since this is a SnG instead of a MTT I should fold these basically everytime?

[taipan168]

Personally I would have just folded this preflop, I don't think you're losing that much EV by folding here.

As played, agree with the flop check but once MP2 overbets I would not call, particularly since CO has called before you and you don't close the action. Just fold and move on. Agree 100% with the turn c/f.

[drmcboy]

snap fold pre, fold flop.

I think leading flop is better than c/c almost always

[fulksy]

I think leading flop is better than c/c almost always

would you ever lead here or is c/f always better then leading with 4 players in.

i defiantly would fold pre, you had a decent flop and still c/f was the best line, which is why folding pre is better.

[drmcboy]

Given we're here I like betting because hands like 88 might call a bet and then let us get to show down. But usually PPs will check behind up. And draws may be afraid to raise flop or bet turn.

When we c/c we have no idea if we are ahead or behind or what a good turn looks like. Even if we are ahead of a draw they have position and are probably a favorite to win the hand either by hitting or moving us off later.

[fulksy]

Given we're here I like betting because hands like 88 might call a bet and then let us get to show down. But usually PPs will check behind up. And draws may be afraid to raise flop or bet turn.

When we c/c we have no idea if we are ahead or behind or what a good turn looks like. Even if we are ahead of a draw they have position and are probably a favorite to win the hand either by hitting or moving us off later.

yea i would never c/c in this spot. i would almost always c/f, but was just wondering if leading might be better.

[taipan168]

yea i would never c/c in this spot. i would almost always c/f, but was just wondering if leading might be better.

My line would be to check and see what action unfolds. Maybe I'm just chicken (or rusty) but I don't like leading into three players here when we're first to act. By checking we can turn our positional disadvantage into an advantage because we get to see what the others do before we have to decide our further action, no?

[fulksy]

My line would be to check and see what action unfolds. Maybe I'm just chicken (or rusty) but I don't like leading into three players here when we're first to act. By checking we can turn our positional disadvantage into an advantage because we get to see what the others do before we have to decide our further action, no?

makes sense about the position getting to see everyone's actions first and i like checking cause theirs a good chance it gets checked around and i think the turn is easier to play then the flop. i just don't like c/c the flop cause i don't think many worse hands are going to bet, but i think some worse hands might call our bet. but like i said my default line her is c/f.

[drmcboy]

It's a nice thought but doesn't pan out much because you don't get much info from a bet and if the CO bets you have to act with the rest of the table behind.

best case is BB bets and everyone folds but that doesn't happen much and even that is a pretty bad spot with so much money behind.

But if you lead out and get raised you can happily fold and you get a chance to win the pot now and not give the whole table a free card while getting value from worse.

what is the plan if someone bets and it folds to you? I'll split the difference with you and say MP bets and CO folds. Assuming it's to call, what's the turn line if turn is not a 7?

[taipan168]

what is the plan if someone bets and it folds to you? I'll split the difference with you and say MP bets and CO folds. Assuming it's to call, what's the turn line if turn is not a 7?

Check call again I guess. Let me turn the tables on this line, if we lead out, MP calls and the rest fold and the turn comes a blank, what's our line then and why are we in a better position that if we had c/c the flop? Agree with you that if we lead and get raised it's a very easy fold however.

[drmcboy]

we give up and hope to get to river, probably make a small blocking bet there. If he bluffs with worse on the turn good for him. we can easily have a set/two pair and be looking to check bomb turn.

It's better because we make everyone's actions more pure and again in your scenario there is still a chance BB/whoever is left in the pot is waiting to c/r.

the idea someone bets two streets with a worse hand than K7 and gives up on the river is optimistic, plus they can get there. We can make mistakes with either line but I think we have a chance to make less leading out.

If you c/c the flop it should be with a plan to bluff clubs I think, esp a turn club - assuming pot gets HU. Otherwise your hand is pretty face up as a weak one pair because you're never going to let the turn come off for 1 bet with something better.

[Nakamura]

If we lead the flop and then try to play a small pot on the turn and river, is there much point in betting at all on the flop? Sure, we might spike a 7 but we may just lose a bunch of chips if another K comes.

[drmcboy]

Focus on post flop, yes we should fold pre because making tp/trips is scary, but here we are here.

I gave several reasons why we bet the flop, make a post about those and we'll go from there.

that said I don't see why you'd lose a lot of chips if a K comes off, or how this changes if you c/c vs lead.