WW: Star Wars Feedback

[bigred]

So how can we improve the next game?

Things I liked:

-Mandatory 2-day lynch
-72 hours for days
-two wolf team system
-Google wave discussion by the Sith


I'm not sure how I feel about alternative vigilante-ish kills. However, we certainly can't give both teams a kill each night and no one seems to like the conflip resulting in 0,1, or 2 kills a night.

Also, there was talk about implementing a new activity for the regular villagers. Let's discuss all of that here.

Despite Google abandoning wave, I think I will require special roles to use wave next game. I'll start individual waves for both wolf teams, seer, angel, and vigilante. Game play will still be on FTR.

[Keith]

one big disadvantage of wolves saving kills is that it will become standard for wolves to save kills for use on the seer and angel to make sure that one of them dies.Might be best to just have it so that there is one wolf kill each night and that alternates between the two wolf teams.I referred to their being a best wolf strategy early in the game.

[TLR]

I liked the two wolf teams

I think that having alternate nights for kills is a better option, getting the wolves to save kills adds an additional layer of strategy but it results in a relatively slow start to the game.

The 72 hours days were good, the mandatory 2 day lynch did not play a big part in the game, I dont really like it and I would prefer a 2 day mandatory post rule.

I think an interesting addition to the game would be to duplicate some of the villager special roles that apply only to one team (for example 2 angels that each one can only protect from a specific team or 2 seers that can only see one team & special roles etc...)

[jackvance]

I think we should just play another one with these rules as is now, because the double team thing added quite some extra new strategies but it's all rather hard to see after just one game. And this one was kinda dominated by one team getting bamboozled by the seer lie and all the missed wolf kills. So my suggestion is one or two more games under these rules, and then reevaluate where we can make it better or tweak it further.

[Keith]

suggestion for fleshing out a new game

prisoner of war camp;

escape commitee
intelligence officer (seer)
bodyguard (angel)
hitman (vigilante)


3 villager tunnelers: there are x days left for them to complete the tunnel and a mass breakout of prisoners. As long as one of the tunnelers survives until night x the tunnel will be completed and prisoners escape

3 double agents
these guys have been inserted to try and discover who the excape commitee and tunnelers are.

spy
gets either a lookup or a kill each night. chooses if he wants to aid the escape or help prevent it at the start of the game

[Hoopy]

I think the mandatory 2 day lynch was a good idea along with the 72 hour day. But I think trying to add more special roles is just going to make it confusing, maybe one additional specific role for each game?

Didn't really like that both teams could save up their kills, I think having just one wolf team is better.

[rong]

I'm loving 2 wolf teams, def wanna keep that. I also like the option to save a kill, baring in mind wolves need both seer & angel to pull off a definite kill, and the seer can always choose to save himself to keep him alive for the endgame.

As for madatory lynch vote, I like it, adds an element of pressure when there are a couple of bw's forming.

As for wave, I hate it!

[supa]

Bigred, can you unlock the game thread so I can copy Dans "fuck you america" quote and paste it in the thread where he says he wants to holiday here?

[JKDS]

Liked dual wolf team

Liked vigilante dynamic for wolves, and honestly dont see any problems with this at all. For them to do this both roles need to be out in the open and the wolves need to coordinate the attack (ie, they are guaranteed to lose a wolf in the crossfire + any they used to out the roles).

We definitely need more games of this structure though, because its unclear how the game is affected if we add a village vigilante (lol, newfish got lynched) or if we lose a seer/angel really early.

I liked mandetory lynch votes, 72 hrs seemed good.

Ive never used google wave. In the past we've had private blogs that were unsearchable...but im guessing wave is the same thing and i think its fine

[TLR]

Liked dual wolf team

Liked vigilante dynamic for wolves, and honestly dont see any problems with this at all. For them to do this both roles need to be out in the open and the wolves need to coordinate the attack (ie, they are guaranteed to lose a wolf in the crossfire + any they used to out the roles).

Or as it happened this game, seer was out in the open and one wolf team knew the angel, but this is rare and in this case the angel can just identify itself

[rong]

Bigred, can you unlock the game thread so I can copy Dans "fuck you america" quote and paste it in the thread where he says he wants to holiday here?

Here's a fresh one for you, and I think I speak on behalf of many, many people around the world:

Fuck You America!!!!

[GatorJH]

Liked dual wolf team

Liked vigilante dynamic for wolves, and honestly dont see any problems with this at all. For them to do this both roles need to be out in the open and the wolves need to coordinate the attack (ie, they are guaranteed to lose a wolf in the crossfire + any they used to out the roles).

We definitely need more games of this structure though, because its unclear how the game is affected if we add a village vigilante (lol, newfish got lynched) or if we lose a seer/angel really early.

I liked mandetory lynch votes, 72 hrs seemed good.

Ive never used google wave. In the past we've had private blogs that were unsearchable...but im guessing wave is the same thing and i think its fine

pretty much this imo.

DEFINITELY like the dual wolf team as it adds quite a few dynamics to the game. We used a private forum when I was a wolf that worked out pretty well.

[rong]

We used a private forum when I was a wolf that worked out pretty well.

Better than wave imo

Wave is great in the way it works, but awful in terms of speed. Whether I used firefox or IE I found myself waiting for like a minute at a time for my typing to catch up, and I have a good internet connection. One way around this is to type your comment in another program & then copy and paste, but that kinda ruins the point of wave, may as well just use a standard forum.

[Donachello]

Our team used a private forum. Downside was that we didn't communicate that much.
I could see that a forum + skype for group real-time convos would be good.

[a500lbgorilla]

I still believe that the two wolf-team system is very well-balanced.

Mandatory lynch votes worked perfectly, imho.

[Penneywize]

Just my $0.02, thought the two-team wolf system wasn't very good; seems to further tilt things in the village's favour. I'm not sure if upping the wolf:villager ratio would help all that much either. Simply put, we'd have to tweak things more to make the two wolf teams concept work, like perhaps having one player per team who would show as a villager if looked up by the seer or something to that effect.

[BooG690]

Just my $0.02, thought the two-team wolf system wasn't very good; seems to further tilt things in the village's favour. I'm not sure if upping the wolf:villager ratio would help all that much either. Simply put, we'd have to tweak things more to make the two wolf teams concept work, like perhaps having one player per team who would show as a villager if looked up by the seer or something to that effect.

I disagree. I think it's very well-balanced. We just sucked/ran bad/etc.

[Penneywize]

Just to clarify I'm not blaming our poor performance on the game layout, I just generally think that having >1 wolf team gives the village more of an advantage. Villages tend to win most games anyway (I think about 70% or so?) so it seems kinda counter productive to give them more advantages over the wolves. Well-balanced would mean wolves win just as often as villagers...

anyhow like I said It's a good concept, I just think it needs some tweaking to make sure the odds are more evenly stacked. def willing to give it another go

oh yeah and I really liked google wave, was glad we used that as our means of communication. Dan's just bein a bish

[JKDS]

Shut up wolf!

[bigred]

Just to clarify I'm not blaming our poor performance on the game layout, I just generally think that having >1 wolf team gives the village more of an advantage. Villages tend to win most games anyway (I think about 70% or so?) so it seems kinda counter productive to give them more advantages over the wolves. Well-balanced would mean wolves win just as often as villagers...

anyhow like I said It's a good concept, I just think it needs some tweaking to make sure the odds are more evenly stacked. def willing to give it another go

oh yeah and I really liked google wave, was glad we used that as our means of communication. Dan's just bein a bish

I'd like to hear input from the other wolves in this game. I could possibly tweak it so the alpha doesn't show up to the seer but I really think this disadvantage you speak of was more a result of multiple mistakes by the wolf team in this specific game. The JKDS kill, trying to level the seer, and some very obvious posts connecting certain players made it very hard for either team to beat the village. I think we need one more game to get a better idea of how this two team system works.

[BooG690]

Don't listen to Penney, Big. He's just a bitch.

[a500lbgorilla]

I think we can cede a small booster to the wolf teams like the alphas being invisible. A one wolf team has near perfect knowledge of who is what, it's a bit of a step down for them to not know both the special roles and the other wolves.

[GatorJH]

so alpha looks like a villager when looked up?

[Penneywize]

Don't listen to Penney, Big. He's just a bitch.

[Penneywize]

so alpha looks like a villager when looked up?

Yeah that's the idea. when we played the cold war WW way back when (i'm sure you'll remember) the wolf team had something similar to that. Kinda really made things tough for the village but it was a hell of a game...

[TLR]

I really dont like the idea, didnt like it in the cold war game either. It weakens the seer position too much because he cant really trust any of his villager lookups

[Penneywize]

meh, maybe we should just give it another go under the current rules and see how things pan out. I guess the runbad could be weighing on me a little bit in my reasoning here

[bode]

showing the alpha as a villager is a terrible idea. i really liked the 2 wolf teams and think we should give it another go.