early tourney, 88 vs tilt to call shove

[Zorkion]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 (t1350)
MP1 (t2815)
MP2 (t665)
MP3 (t1750)
CO (t2050)
Button (t805)
SB (t1275)
Hero (BB) (t1510)
UTG (t1280)

Hero's M: 20.13

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 8
6 folds, Button bets t805 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: t125

opp was obviously tilting from a previous beat he took, and had shown down hands like 98s, 96s, and a7o.

So?

[taipan168]

I hit the call button pretty fast here with your read, particularly because you close the action and his shove came from the button.

Just tell me you didn't post this hand because you lost it

[baudib]

call

[TLR]

If he opens wide its an easy call

[Zorkion]

for the record, i didnt post it just because i lost it, but i rather because i wasnt sure what sort of considerations icm calculations would factor into the decision, as well as what his expected preflop shove range might be, and how it would factor in.

but yeah, he made the shove with a9o, and caught.cough.

but yeah, sorry, i try not to post hands that are obviously just bad beats, but i wasnt sure if this one was a bad beat or a bad decision

that, and im still trying to get the hang of the effect of icm in my decisions

[TLR]

With a full table ICM is less of a factor - it should be pretty close to straight pot odds.

[Zorkion]

i guess i really need to review icm then. i was under the impression that with a full table, it meant that you needed better equity to make calls, since you wouldnt be gaining an equal amount, due to the spread of itm% given to other players should opp bust.

i will review it though and whatnot.

finally figured out how to retrieve opp stats from fpdb, and looks like he was 50/33, but i guess we've already crossed that bridge

[TLR]

i guess i really need to review icm then. i was under the impression that with a full table, it meant that you needed better equity to make calls, since you wouldnt be gaining an equal amount, due to the spread of itm% given to other players should opp bust.

i will review it though and whatnot.

finally figured out how to retrieve opp stats from fpdb, and looks like he was 50/33, but i guess we've already crossed that bridge

ICM pretty much always implies that you need better equity then direct pot odds, but as I recall the gap between them narrows the farther you get from the money

[ManicLombax]

Yeah it's pretty close at a full table. Take a look here if you want to fiddle with ICM numbers:

ICM Poker - Online ICM Calculator

If everyone starts with 1500 chips with 9 players, clearly everyone has 11.1% prize pool equity. If you double up and knock one player out, you'll be up to about 20.3%, so a 9.2% increase (the remaining equity being distributed among the other 7 players). So yeah not quite 1:1 chip/equity ratio but in the ballpark.